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Old 02-10-2012, 08:50 AM   #1
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


I got into a discussion with a friend recently. He had a brown water mark stain on the ceiling and wanted to paint over it. He initially put white paint on it and then when that did not work too well, he put two coats of primer and then more white paint but he still does not like the way it looks. He says it is a bit too grayish in color.

So my question would be: Is primer much more effective if you put it directly on a stain (so that is can chemically bond or otherwise alter the stain) or does it make no difference?

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Old 02-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #2
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


It still should have covered.
Could be the stain is still wet, insulation above it is holding in moisture and should have been replaced, old paint or not stured enough ect.

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Old 02-10-2012, 10:49 AM   #3
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


What primer was used? Not all primers are stain killers. The best for that is BIN- an alcohol based pigmented shellac.
Most water based stain killers will need 2 coats with a fair dry between.
It does not matter if the primer is on the stain, or on a paint that let the stain bleed through.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #4
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Shouldn't make a difference but as mentioned, if you have not addressed what is causing the staining, the layer of paint just provides another layer for the stain to seep into. The closer you can apply a sealer/stainblocker to the source the better. But the paint is on so you move forward.

Not sure why you are getting graying unless you are racing the recoat and cure times of the materials?
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:58 PM   #5
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


My friend used two coats of Kilz Stain blocker/sealer primer. That is a pretty good brand from what I understand. He resolved the leakage issue above the ceiling already so the moisture is not continuing and the insulation was removed. The spot still looks slightly gray to him, like a shadow a bit as though the priming and painting did not work so well to cover it up completely. He is probably just obsessed with it more than others and an unknowning person probably could not tell it was there.

I have a few of these stains myself so I need to figure out what works best to beat these brown water stains. I will keep the BIN primer in mind when it is time to work on that. Thanks for all the replies.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:18 PM   #6
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Primers are engineered to perform different functions. There are bonding primers, hiding primers and sealing primers. If you are dealing with a water-extractive stain, you need to be sure the source of the water is repaired and that the surface is dry. Water-based primers can re-activate the stain and may allow it to bleed into the finish.

An oil-based, fast-dry primer, such as Cover Stain, is made for this situation.
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Old 02-10-2012, 05:32 PM   #7
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle One View Post
My friend used two coats of Kilz Stain blocker/sealer primer. That is a pretty good brand from what I understand. He resolved the leakage issue above the ceiling already so the moisture is not continuing and the insulation was removed. The spot still looks slightly gray to him, like a shadow a bit as though the priming and painting did not work so well to cover it up completely. He is probably just obsessed with it more than others and an unknowning person probably could not tell it was there.

I have a few of these stains myself so I need to figure out what works best to beat these brown water stains. I will keep the BIN primer in mind when it is time to work on that. Thanks for all the replies.


Only the original oil base is any good
Bin is what you need
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:19 PM   #8
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle One View Post
I got into a discussion with a friend recently. He had a brown water mark stain on the ceiling and wanted to paint over it. He initially put white paint on it and then when that did not work too well, he put two coats of primer and then more white paint but he still does not like the way it looks. He says it is a bit too grayish in color.

So my question would be: Is primer much more effective if you put it directly on a stain (so that is can chemically bond or otherwise alter the stain) or does it make no difference?
I agree with BrushJockey......BIN alcohol based primer is best.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:30 PM   #9
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


I hate to show my possible age. 23.

This is the the way it still works, expressed yet again.

Sealer
Primer
Underlay
2- Coats Finish

This is the gospel taught me by geezers with something close to Jesus Fans. You start combining too many of these things into one product? Child you be playing with the Devil.

Anybody reading this noticing the new HD ads. They seem to be dumping BEHRly paint. They are pushing Glidden now and they are tweaking the language about primer and paint in one. They are suggesting only you might be able to skip a primer coat. Clever.

Total BS of course but they seem to be bailing on BEHRly as their go to product.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:12 AM   #10
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Good question about the primer/paint all in ones that are now out there. Anybody have any good experiences with these products? Heck, if you can get away with just one coat, what a time saver that would be! Sounds too good to be true, eh?
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle One View Post
Good question about the primer/paint all in ones that are now out there. Anybody have any good experiences with these products? Heck, if you can get away with just one coat, what a time saver that would be! Sounds too good to be true, eh?

that's because it is
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:18 PM   #12
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle One View Post
Good question about the primer/paint all in ones that are now out there. Anybody have any good experiences with these products? Heck, if you can get away with just one coat, what a time saver that would be! Sounds too good to be true, eh?
I don't think the primer in paint people say much about one coat.... just imply it. Did a project with the stuff last week and it took 4 coats and some touch up. Behr of course. It seemed to work ok on my house several months ago but I think it was since I was spraying, I was able to go back over it several times thinking I just missed a spot. I brushed this project so it was more evident.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:26 AM   #13
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Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?


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Originally Posted by jschaben View Post
I don't think the primer in paint people say much about one coat.... just imply it. Did a project with the stuff last week and it took 4 coats and some touch up. Behr of course. It seemed to work ok on my house several months ago but I think it was since I was spraying, I was able to go back over it several times thinking I just missed a spot. I brushed this project so it was more evident.

now there is a surprise

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