DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Painting (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/)
-   -   Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/primer-over-paint-less-effective-than-primer-first-when-dealing-stains-133228/)

Eagle One 02-10-2012 08:50 AM

Is primer over paint less effective than primer first when dealing with stains?
 
I got into a discussion with a friend recently. He had a brown water mark stain on the ceiling and wanted to paint over it. He initially put white paint on it and then when that did not work too well, he put two coats of primer and then more white paint but he still does not like the way it looks. He says it is a bit too grayish in color.

So my question would be: Is primer much more effective if you put it directly on a stain (so that is can chemically bond or otherwise alter the stain) or does it make no difference?

joecaption 02-10-2012 08:55 AM

It still should have covered.
Could be the stain is still wet, insulation above it is holding in moisture and should have been replaced, old paint or not stured enough ect.

Brushjockey 02-10-2012 10:49 AM

What primer was used? Not all primers are stain killers. The best for that is BIN- an alcohol based pigmented shellac.
Most water based stain killers will need 2 coats with a fair dry between.
It does not matter if the primer is on the stain, or on a paint that let the stain bleed through.

user1007 02-10-2012 01:02 PM

Shouldn't make a difference but as mentioned, if you have not addressed what is causing the staining, the layer of paint just provides another layer for the stain to seep into. The closer you can apply a sealer/stainblocker to the source the better. But the paint is on so you move forward.

Not sure why you are getting graying unless you are racing the recoat and cure times of the materials?

Eagle One 02-10-2012 02:58 PM

My friend used two coats of Kilz Stain blocker/sealer primer. That is a pretty good brand from what I understand. He resolved the leakage issue above the ceiling already so the moisture is not continuing and the insulation was removed. The spot still looks slightly gray to him, like a shadow a bit as though the priming and painting did not work so well to cover it up completely. He is probably just obsessed with it more than others and an unknowning person probably could not tell it was there.

I have a few of these stains myself so I need to figure out what works best to beat these brown water stains. I will keep the BIN primer in mind when it is time to work on that. Thanks for all the replies.

Mr. Paint 02-10-2012 03:18 PM

Primers are engineered to perform different functions. There are bonding primers, hiding primers and sealing primers. If you are dealing with a water-extractive stain, you need to be sure the source of the water is repaired and that the surface is dry. Water-based primers can re-activate the stain and may allow it to bleed into the finish.

An oil-based, fast-dry primer, such as Cover Stain, is made for this situation.

chrisn 02-10-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle One (Post 849690)
My friend used two coats of Kilz Stain blocker/sealer primer. That is a pretty good brand from what I understand. He resolved the leakage issue above the ceiling already so the moisture is not continuing and the insulation was removed. The spot still looks slightly gray to him, like a shadow a bit as though the priming and painting did not work so well to cover it up completely. He is probably just obsessed with it more than others and an unknowning person probably could not tell it was there.

I have a few of these stains myself so I need to figure out what works best to beat these brown water stains. I will keep the BIN primer in mind when it is time to work on that. Thanks for all the replies.



Only the original oil base is any good:whistling2:
Bin is what you need

BraniksPainting 02-10-2012 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle One (Post 849442)
I got into a discussion with a friend recently. He had a brown water mark stain on the ceiling and wanted to paint over it. He initially put white paint on it and then when that did not work too well, he put two coats of primer and then more white paint but he still does not like the way it looks. He says it is a bit too grayish in color.

So my question would be: Is primer much more effective if you put it directly on a stain (so that is can chemically bond or otherwise alter the stain) or does it make no difference?

I agree with BrushJockey......BIN alcohol based primer is best.

user1007 02-10-2012 11:30 PM

I hate to show my possible age. 23.

This is the the way it still works, expressed yet again.

Sealer
Primer
Underlay
2- Coats Finish

This is the gospel taught me by geezers with something close to Jesus Fans. You start combining too many of these things into one product? Child you be playing with the Devil.

Anybody reading this noticing the new HD ads. They seem to be dumping BEHRly paint. They are pushing Glidden now and they are tweaking the language about primer and paint in one. They are suggesting only you might be able to skip a primer coat. Clever.

Total BS of course but they seem to be bailing on BEHRly as their go to product.

Eagle One 02-13-2012 11:12 AM

Good question about the primer/paint all in ones that are now out there. Anybody have any good experiences with these products? Heck, if you can get away with just one coat, what a time saver that would be! Sounds too good to be true, eh?

chrisn 02-13-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle One (Post 852406)
Good question about the primer/paint all in ones that are now out there. Anybody have any good experiences with these products? Heck, if you can get away with just one coat, what a time saver that would be! Sounds too good to be true, eh?


that's because it is:laughing:

jschaben 02-13-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle One (Post 852406)
Good question about the primer/paint all in ones that are now out there. Anybody have any good experiences with these products? Heck, if you can get away with just one coat, what a time saver that would be! Sounds too good to be true, eh?

I don't think the primer in paint people say much about one coat.... just imply it. Did a project with the stuff last week and it took 4 coats and some touch up. Behr of course. It seemed to work ok on my house several months ago but I think it was since I was spraying, I was able to go back over it several times thinking I just missed a spot. I brushed this project so it was more evident. :censored:

chrisn 02-14-2012 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschaben (Post 852829)
I don't think the primer in paint people say much about one coat.... just imply it. Did a project with the stuff last week and it took 4 coats and some touch up. Behr of course. It seemed to work ok on my house several months ago but I think it was since I was spraying, I was able to go back over it several times thinking I just missed a spot. I brushed this project so it was more evident. :censored:


now there is a surprise:laughing:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 AM.