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Old 12-29-2016, 03:04 PM   #1
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Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


Hello everyone,

I've encountered a problem while painting that I hope you can help me out with. I just painted a bedroom where I had to do a lot of patch repairs. After patching the walls, I primed with Kilz Premium (I had read that the patches need to be primed because otherwise they absorb the paint differently than the rest of the wall) and then painted with Sherwin Williams Cashmere (simplify beige color; previous color was kind of dark blue). After the first coat, all the patches I had primed where very shiny and I thought it would go away after the second coat, but they are still there (though a bit less pronounced). The shiny spots are very obvious and look pretty bad at a certain time of day (depending on how the light hits the wall), and not as noticeable other times. I even did a third coat on one of the walls and it's still there. At this point I may just leave it, since I don't feel like priming the entire bedroom and putting two more coats of paint on, but I'll be painting the rest of the house and would like to know how to avoid these shiny spots over patches, especially because some areas of the house get a lot of light, and any shiny patches like that will be very obvious. So my questions are:

1) Did I use the wrong type of primer? I used Kilz premium because of the low VOC (I have a baby in the house), but it seemed to go on a bit shiny. I also made a mistake by applying it on more than just the patch (there were areas with two or three patches so I primed around all patches rather than individually, so some primer went on the rest of the walls too). Should I carefully apply it with a paintbrush on the patch only, and not get any on the surrounding wall/paint?

2) If Kilz premium is not good, is there another type you recommend that will have better results, hopefully one that is not too high in VOCs? I also have some Zinsser Gardz left over after removing wallpaper from a bathroom. Would the Gardz be better to put on patches? It's more expensive, but since I have a third of a gallon left, I may as well use it if it will do a good job on patches.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Newkirk

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Old 12-29-2016, 03:09 PM   #2
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


Is Kilz premium the latex primer? If so, then that was a bad choice because it has adhesion issues. That said, I'm guessing what you're seeing is a difference in texture, not anything to do with the paint or primer. Can you post some pictures?

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Old 12-29-2016, 04:13 PM   #3
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


The primer shouldn't be shiny. I had this problem once and sanding it worked. Some primers are supposed to be sanded.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:17 PM   #4
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


What's likely happened is that the primer sealed the patches more than the original wall.
The conventional wisdom about priming patches is largely because joint compound is porous and will absorb the paint more so than the surrounding wall causing flat looking spots.

However, it's often the case the surrounding wall itself is rather porous. Especially if the wall hasn't been painted since construction where it's common to use cheap drywall primers that intentionally create a porous surface and low quality flat paint. In cases like this, priming the patches with a good sealing primer is counterproductive as your seeing.

To fix it at this point, you'll have to apply something to seal the whole wall as well as the patches are. You haven't mentioned what finish paint your using, but I would guess it's not self priming. A quality self priming paint should even out those inconsistencies in a couple coats. A solid coat of the primer followed by your top coat should also work.


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Old 12-30-2016, 07:46 AM   #5
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


stick\shift: Kilz Premium is water based (so yes, latex?), but I think is supposed to have better adhesion than Kilz 2 Latex (according to their site and someone else that recommended it to me). I'll try to post pictures later, but it's been cloudy so the shiny spots don't show up unless sun comes into the room. And it's not a difference in texture, since spots around the patches that where not patched but were primed show the shiny spots. It's more of a difference in sheen. The primed spots seem a bit shinier/glossier than the non-primed.

getrex: I should have tried sanding first but didn't know. It doesn't say anything about sanding in their application instructions. But I did try sanding after the first coat of paint and it did make a bit of difference, though not much.

Jmayspaint: your comment makes sense. The house is 30 years old so has been painted before, but I think they may have used a cheap paint in that room, so it could be a difference in porosity between the primer and the paint that's already there. It's not bad enough to go through the trouble of priming the entire wall and then painting again (I figure I can always put pictures over the worst spots), but I want to make sure this doesn't happen in other rooms with even more sunlight (and I also would like to avoid priming the entire house). I'm using Sherwin Williams Cashmere low luster paint. The guy at SW told me it was self priming, but I'm not sure. I'll call again to confirm, but perhaps I didn't need to use primer at all for the patches.

At this point I think I may try a wall where I prime one patch with Kilz premium, one with Gardz, and one without primer, and see what looks best. Anyone have any ideas about priming the patches with Gardz?

Thanks!
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:53 AM   #6
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


Cashmere doesn't have a primer in it. If you wanted a SW product with primer then you want Super Paint. If you don't want to buy another primer then prime your patches with the paint itself as you cut in your first coat. We have done this 100s of times without any issues.

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Old 12-30-2016, 12:25 PM   #7
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


Yeah, Cashmere is one of the few top line paints that isn't self priming. If a SW employee told you it was, they were misinformed. The data sheet clearly calls for a primer over drywall.

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPD...ype=PDS&lang=E

I like Cashmere ok, but I have noticed its crucial to have a uniform surface to start with or flashing can occur even through multiple coats.




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Old 12-30-2016, 04:10 PM   #8
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


What kind of naps do you use Jmay?
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Old 12-30-2016, 05:08 PM   #9
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


Quote:
Originally Posted by getrex View Post
Cashmere doesn't have a primer in it. If you wanted a SW product with primer then you want Super Paint. If you don't want to buy another primer then prime your patches with the paint itself as you cut in your first coat. We have done this 100s of times without any issues.
There is NOT any paint in the world with primer in it.
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Old 12-30-2016, 05:09 PM   #10
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Newkirk View Post
stick\shift: Kilz Premium is water based (so yes, latex?), but I think is supposed to have better adhesion than Kilz 2 Latex (according to their site and someone else that recommended it to me). I'll try to post pictures later, but it's been cloudy so the shiny spots don't show up unless sun comes into the room. And it's not a difference in texture, since spots around the patches that where not patched but were primed show the shiny spots. It's more of a difference in sheen. The primed spots seem a bit shinier/glossier than the non-primed.

getrex: I should have tried sanding first but didn't know. It doesn't say anything about sanding in their application instructions. But I did try sanding after the first coat of paint and it did make a bit of difference, though not much.

Jmayspaint: your comment makes sense. The house is 30 years old so has been painted before, but I think they may have used a cheap paint in that room, so it could be a difference in porosity between the primer and the paint that's already there. It's not bad enough to go through the trouble of priming the entire wall and then painting again (I figure I can always put pictures over the worst spots), but I want to make sure this doesn't happen in other rooms with even more sunlight (and I also would like to avoid priming the entire house). I'm using Sherwin Williams Cashmere low luster paint. The guy at SW told me it was self priming, but I'm not sure. I'll call again to confirm, but perhaps I didn't need to use primer at all for the patches.

At this point I think I may try a wall where I prime one patch with Kilz premium, one with Gardz, and one without primer, and see what looks best. Anyone have any ideas about priming the patches with Gardz?

Thanks!

It will seal it up tight. You would be better off priming the whole wall with it.
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Old 12-30-2016, 05:24 PM   #11
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


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It will seal it up tight. You would be better off priming the whole wall with it.
I doubted the wisdom of ChrisN for years about Gardz. Then I had a situation of wallpaper removal that proved to almost be my undoing. Some adhesive came off, most of it did not. I wetted the walls, I used scotch brite pads, I used an orbital sander. It got most, but not all of the adhesive off. I was left with many, small, stubborn areas of paste that I knew would flash through the new paint film. This was in a fancy church office and it had to look flawless. I applied the Gardz and crossed my fingers. To this date, those walls are the best looking walls I ever painted. Color and sheen were flawless. I will always tip my cap to Chris for always recommending Gardz in those situations. My only complaint is that it can be hard to find.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:23 AM   #12
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


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Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
There is NOT any paint in the world with primer in it.


Unless you mix them. Strangely enough no matter what the starting color is it always seems to come out a pissant yellow. Θ_Θ
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:47 AM   #13
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


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What kind of naps do you use Jmay?
I use Wooster 50, 50. I switched to microfiber for awhile, but returned to the 50,50's, 1/2 in naps, they just seems to work better for me.
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:46 AM   #14
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


I am not a pro like some of the others that posted, but I usually prime the entire room I am painting with Zinser primer that I have tinted to the final color. Never had any issues. One coat primer, one final coat.
I found that when you are priming only part of a wall, you are going to get unsatisfactory results.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:01 AM   #15
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Re: Primed patches shiny after paint--how to fix?


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Originally Posted by getrex View Post
What kind of naps do you use Jmay?


Usually microfiber, or the Wooster micro plush naps. That's Wooster's version of a microfiber, but it's really quite different than most brands. It has a tighter weave than most microfibers, more like a woven nap.


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