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Rav 07-24-2012 11:35 AM

To prime wood door or not?
 
I have a wood panel door, previously painted at least over 20 years ago, which I want to repaint.

The existing paint looks like semi-gloss. It seems to be in good condition except for being pretty dirty. I did an adhesion test (applied masking tape firmly and ripped off, twice, no change in the paint).

I'm planning on painting with latex. I tried to determine if the existing paint is latex or oil, but I'm not certain. I tried both rubbing alcohol and ammonia with a cotton ball. Since the color is very light (Homestead White), it was hard to tell if it came off on the cotton ball. It didn't "strip" off the wood, but it did drip off a milky white-ish liquid.

Does that sound like the existing paint is latex?

Here are the steps I plan to follow, in order, which I'd appreciate any advice on:

Clean with Dirtex (door is pretty dirty).
Fill small cracks with wood filler (not wood putty).
Spot sand where repairs were made.
Light fine sand entire door in order to rough up surface.
Vacuum, and clean again with Dirtex.
Spot prime where repairs were made.
Was NOT planning to prime the entire door unless existing paint is oil-based.
Paint with Duron Signature Select interior acrylic semi-gloss, Homestead White.
Paint second coat if necessary.

Note that I wasn't planning to prime since I'm assuming (for now) that it's latex and since I'll be lightly sanding the door. Assuming it's latex, do you think it's OK in this particular situation that it's OK not to prime? If you think the existing paint might be oil-based, or if you think I should prime anyway, what brand and variety should I use? I've heard of Zinsser, but there seem to be dozens of varieties of it, and even more than one oil-based variety if you think I'm painting over oil-based paint.

Thanks for your comments and help. I'm trying to educate myself first before painting, and I want to do the job right and be pleased with the results.

ric knows paint 07-24-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav (Post 973127)
I have a wood panel door, previously painted at least over 20 years ago, which I want to repaint.

The existing paint looks like semi-gloss. It seems to be in good condition except for being pretty dirty. I did an adhesion test (applied masking tape firmly and ripped off, twice, no change in the paint).

I'm planning on painting with latex. I tried to determine if the existing paint is latex or oil, but I'm not certain. I tried both rubbing alcohol and ammonia with a cotton ball. Since the color is very light (Homestead White), it was hard to tell if it came off on the cotton ball. It didn't "strip" off the wood, but it did drip off a milky white-ish liquid.

Does that sound like the existing paint is latex?

Here are the steps I plan to follow, in order, which I'd appreciate any advice on:

Clean with Dirtex (door is pretty dirty).
Fill small cracks with wood filler (not wood putty).
Spot sand where repairs were made.
Light fine sand entire door in order to rough up surface.
Vacuum, and clean again with Dirtex.
Spot prime where repairs were made.
Was NOT planning to prime the entire door unless existing paint is oil-based.
Paint with Duron Signature Select interior acrylic semi-gloss, Homestead White.
Paint second coat if necessary.

Note that I wasn't planning to prime since I'm assuming (for now) that it's latex and since I'll be lightly sanding the door. Assuming it's latex, do you think it's OK in this particular situation that it's OK not to prime? If you think the existing paint might be oil-based, or if you think I should prime anyway, what brand and variety should I use? I've heard of Zinsser, but there seem to be dozens of varieties of it, and even more than one oil-based variety if you think I'm painting over oil-based paint.

Thanks for your comments and help. I'm trying to educate myself first before painting, and I want to do the job right and be pleased with the results.

Hiya Rav,

Over 20 years, the paint has apparently withstood a lot, you've tested the adhesion and you believe it to still be in sound condition. The finish product you've chosen is the right choice and you'll very much enjoy it's application and performance. But why the hesitation regarding whether to prime or not? The best recommendation is always - "if in doubt, prime"...With today's resins, it's not absolutely necessary that all oil surfaces be primed prior to finishing with latex, but you're already willing to do everything a manufacturer could ask an end-user to do to minimize the possibility of a failed application - so, for the additional cost of approx. $15.00 and a few extra minutes of application time, why not maximize the probability for a successful app? (Personally, I'd recommend XIM UMA as a primer, but there are several other acrylic products that'd also work)...

Best wishes on your project and let us know how you fare...It's always encouraging to talk with those who understand the need for proper surface prep and are willing to do what's necessary for a job well done.

Rav 07-24-2012 12:48 PM

Thanks for your reply, Ric. I think you've convinced me that it might be penny-wise and pound-foolish not to prime, that I should prime to ensure the best job. But I'm not sure which you think the existing paint is, oil or latex. If it's oil, I had read that I should use an oil-based primer since I'm going to finish with latex. XIM UMA is acrylic (water-born), right? So do you think my existing paint is oil or latex, and even if it's oil are you saying you don't think it's necessary to use an oil-based primer? Thanks.

ric knows paint 07-24-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rav (Post 973171)
Thanks for your reply, Ric. I think you've convinced me that it might be penny-wise and pound-foolish not to prime, that I should prime to ensure the best job. But I'm not sure which you think the existing paint is, oil or latex. If it's oil, I had read that I should use an oil-based primer since I'm going to finish with latex. XIM UMA is acrylic (water-born), right? So do you think my existing paint is oil or latex, and even if it's oil are you saying you don't think it's necessary to use an oil-based primer? Thanks.

I don't know if it's oil or latex, but it really doesn't matter - these "new age" acrylic primers (such as XIM UMA et al.) will work on either with exceptional adhesion (actually better adhesion than their oil/alkyd counterparts).

chrisn 07-24-2012 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ric knows paint (Post 973181)
I don't know if it's oil or latex, but it really doesn't matter - these "new age" acrylic primers (such as XIM UMA et al.) will work on either with exceptional adhesion (actually better adhesion than their oil/alkyd counterparts).

That and if it is sanded a bit first,
any good primer will stick.
XIM is hard for me to get around here:mad:

ric knows paint 07-24-2012 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 973375)
That and if it is sanded a bit first,
any good primer will stick.
XIM is hard for me to get around here:mad:

You mean to tell me those paint guys formerly known as Cumberland Valley Paint can't order some XIM in for you?

Brushjockey 07-24-2012 07:52 PM

Hey ric- in your smarty pants world ( and I mean that in a good way!) do you think XIM UMB is the best of the bunch for adhesion in the toughest situation ( that one doesn't want Major Stink to show up) ?
I have been rotating thru a variety, Smart Prime, 123, etc. and sometimes am not happy.
My experience ( limited) with UMB is that it is not great at laying out. But superior adhesion might trump that.

ric knows paint 07-24-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushjockey (Post 973523)
Hey ric- in your smarty pants world ( and I mean that in a good way!) do you think XIM UMB is the best of the bunch for adhesion in the toughest situation ( that one doesn't want Major Stink to show up) ?
I have been rotating thru a variety, Smart Prime, 123, etc. and sometimes am not happy.
My experience ( limited) with UMB is that it is not great at laying out. But superior adhesion might trump that.


Truthfully, I don't think I've ever brushed XIM UMA out...I've always sprayed it, mainly through an HVLP, so I've never experienced how well the product flows from a brush app. However, from strictly an adhesion issue, I can't think of any single component, acrylic product that has as strong, or fast of an adhesion as UMA. For a more standard app, I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to find or use UMA, but whenever I need an app to what should be a really difficult surface (glazed tile, porcelain, baked finishes, etc), I'll usually go with UMA.

Expert Paint 07-24-2012 11:09 PM

Xim UMA is an amazing product. but it sucks to brush because it flash bonds and dries waaay too fast. if you use floetrol, or xim xtender is slows down the dry time, but alters the adhesion properties of the primer. the only time ive brushed it is on an ext table where i was trying to build brush strokes for glazing/aging purposes. spray it if you use it

chrisn 07-25-2012 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ric knows paint (Post 973511)
You mean to tell me those paint guys formerly known as Cumberland Valley Paint can't order some XIM in for you?

They can get it but it is way expensive, how do you know CVD ( there are still here and it is where I now get most of my paint)

ric knows paint 07-25-2012 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 973750)
They can get it but it is way expensive, how do you know CVD ( there are still here and it is where I now get most of my paint)

I get around a little...

chrisn 07-25-2012 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ric knows paint (Post 973856)
I get around a little...



ahh, mysterious


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