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Old 06-08-2009, 12:42 PM   #1
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


We're trying to get our house painted but we are getting conflicting information from the painters and the paint dealers.

The situation:

This will be the third time the house has been painted, it was built in 2001 and is in Massachusetts. It was repainted five years ago due to rust coming from the nails mainly on the front side of our house (south facing). When we repainted it then we had each nail head individually primed with an oil-based primer and then did two coats of Benjamin Moore solid stain. We believe the original paint was also BM stain. Well the nail heads have started showing through again and we don't love the color we did five years ago so we're going to repaint.

Choosing a paint:

We were reviewing consumer reports and decided to go with California paints. The paint dealer is pushing us strongly to use paint and not stain for our situation. We then met with a recommended painter who says we should not use the flat California paint but wants us to do a single coat of tinted ICI Waterborne primer and single coat of ICI Waterborne paint. ICI (who I've never heard of) looks to be the manufacturer of Glidden.

I'm not sure where to go with this one. Should I go with the painter approach of prime+stain or push the paint? If I push the paint, should we prime as well? Any comments on ICI?

I'm confused and concerned.

Thanks!


Last edited by Omniver; 06-10-2009 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:29 PM   #2
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Anybody?? Please.

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Old 06-09-2009, 02:45 PM   #3
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


stain is not offering enough "hide" for your house. So paint may be a better way to go. Oil based primer is needed do to your existing coatings. Acrylic Latex Exterior paint is the best to use. flat is better also which will clean better and not show any siding defects. Not familiar with California brand, but Benjamin Moore paints are too rate for this job.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:36 PM   #4
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


There is the chance that there is moisture being retained under your painted surfaces (siding), that is causing the nails to continue to rust and bleed through.

The nails may be treated with an oil-based stain killing compound.
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Old 06-09-2009, 07:40 PM   #5
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


This is why you use the latex paint. This allows it to breath. And the oil primer is to seal the nail problem
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:49 PM   #6
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


omni.
I live in Mass. also. What type of siding do you have? Since the nail heads were sealed with oil before, they should not bleed unless there is moisture causing the nail to bleed not the head. Its hard to give a definitive answer without seeing your siding. Any pics?
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:29 PM   #7
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniver View Post
We're trying to get our house painted but we are getting conflicting information from the painters and the paint dealers.

The situation:

This will be the third time the house has been painted, it was built in 2001 and is in Massachusetts. It was repainted five years ago due to rust coming from the nails mainly on the front side of our house (south facing). When we repainted it then we had each nail head individually primed with an oil-based primer and then did two coats of Benjamin Moore solid stain. We believe the original paint was also BM stain. Well the nail heads have started showing through again and we don't love the color we did five years ago so we're going to repaint.

Choosing a paint:

We were reviewing consumer reports and decided to go with California paints. The paint dealer is pushing us strongly to use paint and not stain for our situation. We then met with a recommended painter who says we should not use the flat California paint but wants us to do a single coat of tinted ICI Waterborne primer and single coat of ICI Waterborne paint. ICI (who I've never heard of) looks to be the manufacturer of Glidden.

I'm not sure where to go with this one. Should I go with the painter approach of prime+stain or push the paint? If I push the paint, should we prime as well? Any comments on ICI?

I'm confused and concerned.

Thanks!
Are you located on or near the ocean:

Type of Siding:

Since you already had BM solid stain applied it makes sense to go with that or a lifetime coating. Even if your coating did not get 25 or 35 years I am sure I can say without fail that you could at least get 15 years of life out of it by using the company i get my supplies from. That sure would beat the amount of times you have painted yours thus far.

You said the nails were primed with oil based primer. Thats a good second step, but did you have the rust treated before that? I always treat any rust problems with an oxalic acid or even Ospho to remove the loose rust and to make sure that all that is on the surface comes off clean.

I would apply a waterproofing/breathable coating wtih a multi step process of primer/finish/finish. Highbuild would be a good way to go.

Give me a message through my email and I will get you with the guy who I buy from.

colonial-powerwashingandpainting@comcast.net
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Old 06-10-2009, 06:12 AM   #8
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Looks like whoever did your siding didn't use Galvanized Nails. They probably saved a whole $20 and now your siding looks like crap for it.
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:06 AM   #9
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


The problem from the nails could stem from the use of galvenized nails with cedar siding. The tannins in cedar react with galv nail and create either a black dot or streak and sometimes rust. With cedar a stainless fastener should be used.

As far as painting goes, you may want to consider a stain surpressing primer to try to block the nail bleed. As far as the finish coat goes a paint will give you a larger film thickness than a stain but it may not solve the issue if the nails aren't treated properly.
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:58 AM   #10
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


you might need to treat the nails first with a coating of shellac.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:08 AM   #11
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Thanks for the comments everyone. Here are some pics of the nail problem and the requested information:

  • The clapboards are cedar
  • We are not on the Ocean (about an hour away
The painter we're interviewing believes the issue is caused mainly by moisture coming out through the nail holes and bringing Cedar bleed with it. This is why he wants to use a waterborne primer and stain - to help the clapboard breathe. Does this make sense?

Also, any comments on ICI paint????

Here are some pics:





(we were trying out a new paint color on the top boards)

Thanks!
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:12 PM   #12
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


I don't believe that a waterbourne primer will prevent either cedar bleed or rust from coming through. If you don't mind, where are you located in Mass.
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:16 PM   #13
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Looks like your nails were set in but never puttied. The putty would have given your nail heads a lot more protection.

Some things to note. Stain is designed to soak into the wood. You have way too much buildup on your wood and need more adhesion than penetration. I would spot prime the nail holes with Shellac like Bob suggested and then paint with a high quality latex.
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:43 PM   #14
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Waynech: I'm in Mansfield

What will Shellac do vs. another type of primer?
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Old 06-10-2009, 01:21 PM   #15
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Please Help on Exteriror Paint Job - Getting conflicting information


Shellac will seal the tannins that is being released from the cedar which is reacting with the nails. It is alcohol based so it seals the water and oil based issues you are dealing with.

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