Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-29-2011, 05:00 AM   #16
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,653
Share |
Default

Painting Old House


Quote:
Originally Posted by jschaben View Post
I, for one, probably use the terms interchangably because I have no clue what the difference is. The OP says he is filling nail sets with window glazing. The window glazing I use, DAP 33, specifically recommends "oil based primer" within 7-14 days after application. Now, I've been using Zinsser Seal Coat, which I have come to believe is an Alkyd but actually have no idea whether it is or not... or, whether it satisfies the window glazing requirement. .. more info please
Seal coat is a sealer and not necessarilly what you want( I don't think) I have always used a slow dry oil primer( or maybe alkyd?) such as Fresh Start oil or Duron before and after glazing. Sometimes if I am down to the bare wood on window sashes I will wipe on a coat of linseed oil to sink into the wood.
Attached Images
  

chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to chrisn For This Useful Post:
jschaben (06-30-2011)
Old 06-29-2011, 09:15 AM   #17
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Painting Old House


Chemically, "oil" and "alkdy" are different things - but that baout the only world where it really matters practically; in ou world, it is sufficine to know that an 'alkyd' is a modified 'oil', but they both qualify as the opposite from latexes...

More importantly is that Oil/Alkyds dry in 6 hours or so but cure in 10 days whereas latex paints dry in 3 hours but cure in 30 days! and that temperature, humidity levels, dew points and air movement affect the final results you get...I see a lot of people using latex when it's 90 deg outside and wonder why they don't get the results they hoped for - then blame the paint.

They never blame the piant in Nebraska.
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ccarlisle For This Useful Post:
jschaben (06-30-2011)
Old 06-29-2011, 09:18 AM   #18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Smile

Painting Old House


I'm impressed with all of you responding to my questions. You people are great!! I'm very,very happy to have found this site. This has been extremely helpful.

I did see the sale on SW paints and am going to buy 16 gallons.
Not sure if I'm going with Duration ($57 @ 30% off = $39.90) or their Super Paint line ($44 @ 30% off = $30.80).
My total Square Footage is 3340. Times two coats= 6678. I am assuming that coverage is 400 sq. ft. per gallon. I will find out when I go to purchase paint.
Any thoughts welcome all of you paint masters.
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 09:23 AM   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Default

Painting Old House


I would like to know what to do about priming with oil base primer.
I know you can put latex over oil but can't put oil over latex.
The existing paint is latex. The bare wood is here and there, some areas are large, but some are spotty, like a brindle dog (If you get my drift.).
If I use oil primer, do I have to be careful about not going over the existing latex paint?
If I can't put oil primer over existing latex paint, will the latex primers work ok?

I Thought maybe go with SW Super Paint and use an oil primer on all large areas of bare wood and as many smaller spots as well.
Question-
Does Duration do better on existing painted surfaces vs. the Super Paint/ Or do they both perform the same?


This brings up a thought. Could I go with a tinted primer for my first coat, then a finish coat with Duration or Super paint? Two coats?
OR do I need to do primer coat and two coats with paint?

Or would I do just as well with the Super Paint and oil primer, with saving $160 in my pocket.
But afew people here said the Super Paint is just as good.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Smokin Gun; 06-30-2011 at 07:41 AM. Reason: Change
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 09:30 AM   #20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Default

Painting Old House


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
Seal coat is a sealer and not necessarilly what you want( I don't think) I have always used a slow dry oil primer( or maybe alkyd?) such as Fresh Start oil or Duron before and after glazing. Sometimes if I am down to the bare wood on window sashes I will wipe on a coat of linseed oil to sink into the wood.
Does this mean I have to use oil primer on glazing? What would happen is I used a latex primer on it?
(I'm not sure what primer on bare wood I am going to use. I know the oil base is better. The existing paint is latex, and I know you can't put oil based over latex.)

Last edited by Smokin Gun; 06-29-2011 at 12:36 PM.
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Default

Painting Old House


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean CRCNA View Post
Smokin Gun,

Hate to turn you into a human experiment, but just wondering ...

Any headaches, cold or flu like symptoms, irritability, constipation, weakness, fatigue or other non-typical symptoms while you were scraping or sanding? Did you wear a mask? Any small children in the home?

Was your home built in the early 1920s?

I specialize in lead based paint and it would help a lot to know. You can answer via private message, if you want.
Dean-
I use masks, safety glasses and have had no trouble withh any of those symptoms you mentioned. There are no children living here. Just my wife and me.
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 12:50 PM   #22
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Painting Old House


Reglazing old windows - in fact, preserving them - is a whole cottage industry that is working wonders in it's domain...reglazing old windows is the 'easy' part of restoring them, but chrisn brings up a good point about linseed oil.

After years of exposure to the elements, windows dry out and several coats of linseed oil are used to refurbish and refresh the wood of muntin bars - which are normally quite skinny pieces of wood, when it comes down to it. The linseed oil may take a week to dry but once dried, a coat of exterior oil-based primer is required - never latex. The film created by the primer provides a barrier between the wood and the new putty so that the linseed oil in good window putties doesn't leach into the wood and dry out.

Then a good grade of linseed oil putty is used to replace the panes of glass. You can apply an oil-based paint within a few days of reglazing (since they're compatible) - but you would have to wait about 2 weeks to apply a latex, to wait for the putty to dry...shows you the difference - in that field - of using latex vs oils...
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 12:55 PM   #23
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Default

Painting Old House


After doing some reviewing on the posts, it sounds like I only have to prime the bare wood and not the painted surfaces. Just what I have thought all along.

Last edited by Smokin Gun; 06-29-2011 at 01:02 PM.
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 03:39 PM   #24
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,653
Default

Painting Old House


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin Gun View Post
After doing some reviewing on the posts, it sounds like I only have to prime the bare wood and not the painted surfaces. Just what I have thought all along.

You only HAVE to prime the bare wood. If it was me I would slow dry oil prime the whole blasted thing to give yourself a uniform surface to apply you're 2(two) finish coats.
chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 11:19 PM   #25
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Post

Painting Old House


Tomorrow we are going to buy paint at Sherwin Williams which is 38 miles from where we live.

I will be asking who ever we are dealing with about primers (hopefully they are knowledgeable.).

I'm asking all of you because you people are pros.

The bare wood is about 20 to 30% , the existing paint is the remaining 70 to 80%. The house in areas looks like a brindle dog with alittle bare wood and alot of existing latex paint. Then there are large areas where it is all bare wood.

I need to prime the bare wood and the existing paint is LATEX. If I use oil primer, I can't put it over the existing Latex paint, right? As it would cause the latex paint to bubble.

If I buy the alkyd primer, can that primer be applied over the existing Latex paint. If not, would I be better off using an acyrlic primer?


Does the cheaper "Super Paint" really hold up as good as "Duration"? Or is the extra 160 dollars for Duration worth the extra money.

Even though (and I believe you people when you say that there is no such thing as primer and paint all in one.) Duration claims to be both primer and paint, will that paint adhere to those brindle areas of bare wood and existing latex paint better than the the less expensive Super Paint?

Last edited by Smokin Gun; 06-29-2011 at 11:22 PM.
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 05:53 AM   #26
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,653
Default

Painting Old House


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin Gun View Post
Tomorrow we are going to buy paint at Sherwin Williams which is 38 miles from where we live.

I will be asking who ever we are dealing with about primers (hopefully they are knowledgeable.).

I'm asking all of you because you people are pros.

The bare wood is about 20 to 30% , the existing paint is the remaining 70 to 80%. The house in areas looks like a brindle dog with alittle bare wood and alot of existing latex paint. Then there are large areas where it is all bare wood.

I need to prime the bare wood and the existing paint is LATEX. If I use oil primer, I can't put it over the existing Latex paint, right? WRONG As it would cause the latex paint to bubble.

If I buy the alkyd primer, can that primer be applied over the existing Latex paint. YES If not, would I be better off using an acyrlic primer?


Does the cheaper "Super Paint" really hold up as good as "Duration"? Or is the extra 160 dollars for Duration worth the extra money.

I would just get the super paint

Even though (and I believe you people when you say that there is no such thing as primer and paint all in one.) Duration claims to be both primer and paint, will that paint adhere to those brindle areas of bare wood and existing latex paint better than the the less expensive Super Paint?
I would not trust ANY paint bonding well to bare wood.
chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 09:11 AM   #27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Central Minnesota
Posts: 23
Post

Painting Old House


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
Reglazing old windows - in fact, preserving them - is a whole cottage industry that is working wonders in it's domain...reglazing old windows is the 'easy' part of restoring them, but chrisn brings up a good point about linseed oil.

After years of exposure to the elements, windows dry out and several coats of linseed oil are used to refurbish and refresh the wood of muntin bars - which are normally quite skinny pieces of wood, when it comes down to it. The linseed oil may take a week to dry but once dried, a coat of exterior oil-based primer is required - never latex. The film created by the primer provides a barrier between the wood and the new putty so that the linseed oil in good window putties doesn't leach into the wood and dry out.

Then a good grade of linseed oil putty is used to replace the panes of glass. You can apply an oil-based paint within a few days of reglazing (since they're compatible) - but you would have to wait about 2 weeks to apply a latex, to wait for the putty to dry...shows you the difference - in that field - of using latex vs oils...


CCarlisle and Chrisn: Very interesting info on using linseed oil.

My bad for not explaining that we had installed new composite windows in our old house 5 years ago.
Before the new windows, the old ones were in sorry shape. We bought this house 9 years and I did reglaze every single window (23) and storm window (another 23) 7 years ago. Wish I knew that trick with the linseed oil 7 years ago.
I went thru I think 4 quarts of Dap 33 glazing. I used a heat gun to get the old cracked up glaze off. It took me about a month to complete. I was doing this when I got home from my regular job.

The glazing I'm using now for filling the nail holes is the left over from that job.

I definitely appreciate your advise.

When I'm priming the bare wood can I apply an "alkyd" primer over the existing latex paint where the bare spots intermingle with the latex paint? I know that oil base products take longer to dry and if oil base coatings are put over latex, it can cause the latex paint to let go of surface. (Bubbling effect.)
Smokin Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 10:40 AM   #28
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Painting Old House


Look, ideally you would be told to strip it all off and start again...LOL And whereas this is the 'correct' approach, it may not be practical in many situations...

In days gone by, around the time your house was built, they painted the wood siding with a linseed oil paint and the job lasted for 20-30 years...father did the first job, then the son did the next one. But nowadays, especially where latex exterior paints are concerned, you're lucky to get 10 years out of a paint job. It's now become a routine chore. But now the wood is dry and the necessity of replacing that lost oil from the wood, and ths an oil paint or an alkyd is called for.

That's on bare wood. Now if you say you have part bare wood part old paint, then you're at the stage of spot maintenace - and that means treating the bare wood one way, theold paint another because the requirements aren't the same. So oil-prime the bare wood but don't prime the old paint.

But make sure the bare wood is dry; if you have a moisture meter, make sure there is no excess moisture coming from the inside of your house through the wood and out to the exterior; that'll cause a premature paint failure guaranteed.

Now when it's all dry, you're then faced with essentially two surfaces. Now depending on what the old paint is, and what the new paint you're putting on is, the results may differ - that's why it's a bit of a tough call from where we sit. See, an acrylic 'new' paint may dry and pull off the old paint - or might not.

So it;'s hard to predict what might happen; you might try different sorts of new paint, an acrylic, an oil or alkyd new paint or a latex new paint and see what the effects are. A quart of each would do.

Not a definitive answer but there is no way of knowing what will happen and apart from "strip it all", that's about the best advice someone could offer. Far be it from anyone here to say "paint the whole house with Brand X type of paint", for it to start peeling in 6 months. And nobody here is an on-site expert.

Except the Omaha-quack that is...LOL
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 03:39 PM   #29
jschaben
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: La Crosse, Kansas
Posts: 587
Default

Painting Old House


This has certainly grown into an informative thread. I'm also getting more excited about the Zinsser Cover Stain. The can says "Oil Base - Interior & Exterior" Primer. The back of the can says "may be used over or under any oil or latex architectural paint". The kicker is "Dry Time: Dries to the touch in about 30 minutes; can be recoated in 1 hour."

I became a believer in oil base paint and glazing when I moved into this old house. The east porch alone has 39 windows, 36 of them are 6" x9". The south porch has 9 double hung windows, 18 panes, plus the bedrooms, living room, kitchen etc. All of which need glazing when I moved in. Naturally, I didn't treat the window opening and primed and painted with latex. Within 3 years I was into a reglazing project as the glazing I had just put in had dried out, hardened and cracked.
Tuition ain't cheap no matter how you come by the education...
__________________
John Schaben

"Where all think alike, no one is thinking very much"
jschaben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:35 AM   #30
paper hanger and painter
 
chrisn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hagerstown MD
Posts: 6,653
Default

Painting Old House


The kicker is "Dry Time: Dries to the touch in about 30 minutes; can be recoated in 1 hour."

and right there is why you do NOT want to use it as a primer for exterior, it drys so quick it has no time to sink into the wood and do it's job properly.

There, now I think I am done with this subject. As I said earlier, if I was painting this house it would get a slow dry oil( alkyd) primer over the WHOLE surface( despite was carlisle has proposed) and 2 top coats of 100% acrylic paint.

chrisn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Painting Stucco House deeonline Painting 0 01-17-2011 03:26 PM
Questions about painting and possibly adding siding to stucco house? krm27 Painting 3 01-19-2010 12:22 PM
Painting house for first time - equipment & safety tomcon Painting 3 07-09-2009 06:25 PM
Complete AC installation in Old Capitol Hill Row House jacko10 HVAC 0 09-18-2007 05:42 PM
Painting exterior of house crebive Painting 2 05-27-2006 11:53 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.