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-   -   ? on painting kitchen cabinets with SW ProClassic and using Floetrol (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/painting-kitchen-cabinets-sw-proclassic-using-floetrol-184278/)

DIY-Her 07-26-2013 10:54 AM

? on painting kitchen cabinets with SW ProClassic and using Floetrol
 
Hi,
I've decided to paint my upper kitchen cabinets with SW's Proclassic Satin Antique White. Been told that SWPC levels out really well.
I already sanded, primed Zinzer123, and put at least 2 coats of SWPC lightly sanding between coats. The 2nd coat didn't seem to flow as well as I expected as far as brush marks and almost didn't seem like a satin finish. So I did a 3rd coat, this time adding some Floetrol in a smaller can mixed with the paint. Also instead of using a brush, I tried a high density foam roller which worked well so far with the cabinet, didn't start on the doors yet.
Some of my questions are:

  • why when using the Floetrol, once dried, it seemed to have more of a shinier finish?
  • I painted the cabinets 24 hours ago, although dry to the touch, it still seems a little tacky? how long should it cure before any other process?
  • Been told that after 2 or 3 coats, it is still best to use a top coat of clear poly. How long should I wait to use the poly, and what is a good poly to use? I've used Minwax Satin Polycrylic Protective Finish for years since I've been refinishing furniture for personal projects when I stain wood, but never with paint.
thanks for any tips you can send my way :)

DIY-Her 07-27-2013 12:34 PM

ok, I answered one of my questions, after the 2nd day, the cabinets are no longer tacky.

but what about a poly coat after I do the glazing? any type better than the other for over paint?

Gymschu 07-27-2013 04:03 PM

Really, the poly is unnecessary. Does it add another layer of protection? Sure. Will it be a royal pain if you want to repaint them in the future? Yes.

Floetrol does not change the sheen or should not change the sheen. It may be that you are getting a shinier look after adding another coat of paint. As for tackiness, your paint will take longer to dry after adding Floetrol. In fact, you really will have about a 30 day time period where the paint is curing and vulnerable to being scratched, etc. as it will be a bit soft as it continues to cure.

Let me also add that touch ups will become oh so difficult if you clear coat your cabinets.

Matthewt1970 07-27-2013 04:05 PM

I agree with Gymschu

DIY-Her 07-27-2013 04:42 PM

thanks, I wonder why a lot of Youtube channels seem to tell you to put a protective topcoat? That's where I think I first saw it. I tried to stay with channels that seemed to be companies or pros who show you doing cabinets on site.

As for Behr :) been using Behr for my walls the past 4 years and I've not had a problem.

I know I did hear that curing can take a while, and should probably not put the doors back up until the paint is cured, because installing the hardware would be bad rubbing against the paint until it is cured.

chrisn 07-27-2013 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIY-Her (Post 1221868)
thanks, I wonder why a lot of Youtube channels seem to tell you to put a protective topcoat? That's where I think I first saw it. I tried to stay with channels that seemed to be companies or pros who show you doing cabinets on site.

As for Behr :) been using Behr for my walls the past 4 years and I've not had a problem.

I know I did hear that curing can take a while, and should probably not put the doors back up until the paint is cured, because installing the hardware would be bad rubbing against the paint until it is cured.

no good will come of this, believe me

beenthere 07-27-2013 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 1221883)
no good will come of this, believe me

I hope your wrong. :)

ToolSeeker 07-28-2013 08:23 PM

I have used a lot of Pro Classic as it is my go to for trim. I have found that overworking it can cause the problems you seem to have had. I also tried adding Flotrol and it really worked against the levelers already in the paint I also tried thinning it with water to make it easier to apply this also did not work. I have found to just put it on, not to keep trying to smooth it, and let the levelers do their thing has worked best for me.

DIY-Her 07-28-2013 09:06 PM

the thing I noticed was it tends to stiffen on my brush as I'm using it. Never had a brush get so gummy that fast. I didn't really overwork it, I just spread it around and then did a light straight last brush stroke. Could be the really warm weather we are having up North in PA

ToolSeeker 07-29-2013 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIY-Her (Post 1222348)
the thing I noticed was it tends to stiffen on my brush as I'm using it. Never had a brush get so gummy that fast. I didn't really overwork it, I just spread it around and then did a light straight last brush stroke. Could be the really warm weather we are having up North in PA

That is what was happening when I started using it and I hated it, it would seem to stiffen to quick. I added flotrol I added water then I went back to my SW rep, he's the one who said I was over working it. Really I swore he was wrong I wasn't working it that much. I was putting it on the way I had for years So I put it on his way just even it out a little and let it alone don't try to smooth out the brush strokes. I just bought 5 gallons to do all the trim and woodwork in a church.

DIY-Her 07-29-2013 09:21 AM

Thanks :)
The actual cabinets on the wall, except for corner areas, I'm using a high density foam roller, same type roller I use to apply protective coatings to my canvas art. It works well there.

How do you prevent the paint on the brush from stiffening when you are working to paint that takes more than 15 mins. That's the problem I seem to be having.

I also noticed that cleaning my brush with mineral spirits then soap and water is a lot easier BEFORE I used the Floetrol. Using the Floetrol seems to make it slick and harder to clean off.

Last time I probably used acrylic paint was at least 30 years ago at a previous house. :laughing:

DIY-Her 07-29-2013 09:33 PM

thank you sooo much Jerry. I just did one side of 3 more doors later this afternoon. The inside and outside edges with a brush, and the raised edges and panels the high density foam roller. I didn't use Floetrol this time around. Some of it seemed a bit thick, but I didn't go over it more than twice. Left it for just under 2 hours, and then went out to bring the doors back into the house. I was amazed at how level even after 2 hours the paint already was. You've helped me a lot, thanks again :)

Brushjockey 07-29-2013 10:05 PM

You shouldn't need Min Spirits at all with that paint. It will just gum it up.
Not the right solvent, just good ol H20 , maybe a bit of dish soap.

Probably why you think the Flotrol is making it sticky.

ToolSeeker 07-30-2013 07:50 AM

Brush is right mineral spirits is just for oil based.

Pro Painter 07-30-2013 08:59 AM

Solvent-borne paints were made decades ago from certain natural oils (tung, from the tung berry, or linseed from flax seeds); these had pigments dispersed in them and then were diluted to a brushable consistency with turpentine (from pine trees), later with mineral spirits (from petroleum).

Being a *solution * of resin-in-solvent, just as is salt-in-water, one can easily add other things that also dissolve in the solvent-vehicle. Flow-modifiers, curing-accelerators, fungicides and other things were commonly sold and used with generally beneficial results on such “oil-base” paints.

Coating solids are carried in a solution or carrier liquid, called a vehicle. Solvent-borne coatings have the binder-resin-solids dissolved in the vehicle.

A continuing series of developments over the last fifty years has brought us “water-cleanup” paints. These are called *latex* paints. The word latex originally meant the sap of the rubber tree, itself a suspension of rubber-droplets in water, just as the cream in milk is a suspension of butterfat (an oil) in mostly-water.

Waterborne coatings carry resins and particles as solid particles, liquid droplets or particles coated with sticky-liquid-resins.

The sticky-liquid-droplets are coated with one or a few layers of molecules called surfactants. These keep the sticky droplets from sticking to each other. This structure is VERY sensitive to all-kinds-of-things. Formulating latex paints is a very delicate and complex art.

Nowadays almost any kind of “resin” may be made as a suspension of microscopic droplets in water. Such a suspension is called an *emulsion*; when one takes some kind of oil and adds emulsifying agents and then maybe beats-the-heck-out-of-it, one may have created an emulsion. That might be called a water-borne oil-base paint. There are such.


Latex paints today are emulsions.

If the “resin” one started with was derived from natural (drying) oils, modified or not, one may very well end up with an “oil-base” coating in a waterborne (the vehicle) coating system.


You can see here the mutation in meanings of words.


Oil-base paints may be waterborne or solventborne.

Understanding what one can or cannot do, to improve coating performance, or to not screw things up, becomes difficult to know when words do not have stable meanings.

The surfactants, or emulsifying agents, are present in VERY small amounts, and a lot of things can upset that fragile layer or two of molecules on the surface of the suspended droplets, and then they maybe stick to each other, or don’t slide past each other as the formulator intended, and then unexpected, unwanted things can happen.

It is relatively difficult to screw up the behavior of a solvent-borne coating with over-the–counter paint additives.

It is fairly easy to screw up the performance of a latex paint with over-the-counter paint additives.

Prescription drugs need to be used carefully, and there may be many undesirable interactions and side-effects. That’s why they are only sold with a doctor’s prescription.

Over-the-counter drugs are sold to just-about-anyone, and it is relatively difficult to get in trouble by their use. That’s why they are sold with negligible controls.

You might see some similarities here, and you would be correct.

The safe thing to do is not modify waterborne paints, but use-as-furnished.

Better the Devil you know, than the one you don’t.


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