Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-17-2008, 05:39 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 26
Share |
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


I recently painted all my wood doors as well as the frames/jambs. Now when I put the doors back up and closed them, when I reopened them part of the paint from the jamb stuck on the door. I primed/sanded/prepped both surfaces and used latex paint. Did I use the wrong kind of paint? Should I have let it dry longer? Any way to prevent this from happening again?

Corcoran1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2008, 08:12 PM   #2
Tired, Cold, and Damp
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 3,089
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


You may not have let it dry long enough (you don't say how long)
It really should cure also (1 to 3 weeks)
Some paints are more prone to it than others (you don't say what paint)
If you used a paint that tends to transfer, sometimes a top coat with one that doesn't works as a fix

slickshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2008, 09:19 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


Corcoran:

In a nutshell, either your paint simply isn't fully dry yet, or you used a relatively inexpensive PVA paint instead of a top quality PMMA paint. If you get all hot and sweaty, and stick your head against the door frame, and your hair sticks to it, and the rest of the door frame doesn't feel that sticky, it's probably cuz you use a PVA paint. You can correct the problem by either scraping that paint off and putting a better paint on, or painting over it with a better paint, depending on the clearance between the door and frame.

Here is a blurb I posted on a different DIY forum I used to (and prolly still will) post on that should answer lots of yer questions:

Sorry that all the word "paint" is highlighted. I found this old post with a search engine that does that. Also, this guy referred to latex paints as "LB" paints and oil based paints as "OB" paints, so I kinda went along with it.

Here's what you need to know about latex paints:

A. Latex paints typically use one of three kinds of plastic for their binder:

1. polyvinyl acetate - also called "PVA" is the plastic resin from which white wood glues are made. PVA resins (formulated to be harder and less sticky) are commonly used to make general purpose primers and "budget" priced interior and exterior latex paints. This kind of paint will call itself a "vinyl acrylic" paint.

2. polymethyl methacrylate - this is the same plastic that Plexiglas is made of. If a can of paint says that it's "100% Acrylic" it just means that the binder resins in it are made of Plexiglas. PMMA is more expensive than PVA, and generally you will find PMMA resins in higher quality paints and ALWAYS in paints specifically intended for use in bathrooms, kitchen & bath paints and as primers over fresh concrete.

There are many different kinds of PVA and PMMA resins, and they;re used for making everything from clear acrylic floor finish to nail polish to grout sealers to LB paints. About 90 percent of the LB paint on the market in North America is made with PVA or PMMA resins.

3. styrenated acrylic - This kind of plastic has a high shine to it, but it yellows with age and doesn't have as good resistance to UV light from the Sun as the previous two plastics. Sherwin Williams "ProClassic" line of paint is an example of a paint made from styrenated acrylic resins. Styrenated acrylic resin paints are more popular in Europe for some reason, don't ask me why.

B. NOW, as touched on, each of these plastics has different properties, and that means that paints made from them will have different properties. PMMA paints will dry to a harder film that is more resistant to moisture, UV light and alkalinity. PVA paints, just like white glues, are much more susceptible to moisture. PVA paints don't adhere to damp or moist surfaces as well, and they lose both their hardness and adhesion in wet or humid conditions. Also, PVA paints have a residual "stickiness" even when fully dry called "blocking". That is, PVA paints generally have poor "blocking resistance", meaning they remain slightly sticky even when dry. That's because adhesion is something that's simply hard to engineer out of the PVA molecule. It allows you to make great wood adhesive, but it causes problems in paints.

When you say "Latex paints never really dry.", it just tells me most of your experiences with latex paints has been with inexpensive latex paints (or PVA paints). Better quality latex paints don't do that.

If you're wanting a latex primer or want to paint a ceiling, then PVA paints are fine. However, they do have that residual stickiness and they do lose their adhesion when wet, so they also cause lots of problems. People paint doors and windows with them and then complain that the door or window sticks to the frame. People paint their shower ceilings with them, and the paint then peels off. (And this problem is generally misdiagnosed as being cause by poor prep work) Really, PVA paints are fine to use if you know the potential problems, but you can avoid lots of paint problems by paying a bit extra and using top quality paints which will almost always use plexiglass resins for their binder.
Quote:
Any advice here? you asked

Yes. I'd say you should spend a few evenings snooping around this web site:
http://www.paintquality.com

That's the web site of the Paint Quality Institute, which was established and is funded by the Rohm & Haas Company who are the largest manufacturer of PMMA resins in North America. They make the PMMA resins for most of the latex paint made in North America, so they know vastly more about the chemistry of paint than companies like Pratt & Lambert, Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams who simply buy the acrylic resins, blend them with pigments, add additives, dilute with water and serve in one gallon containers.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-17-2008 at 09:45 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2008, 09:26 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


The computer told me the post was too long and to shorten it to 10,000 characters, so I cut and copied the last part of it into this next post which deals exclusively with the COLOUR making decision:

And, finally:
C. Also, tell your wife that bright colours look nice, but they're not very resistant to UV light. Tell her she'll have far less fading if she were to choose an "inorganic" colour, like mustard yellow, reddish brown, chocolate brown, raw umber, white or black. That's cuz all these colours are made by pulverizing coloured rocks into a fine powder and using that powder to tint the paint. Rocks are good at being opaque, but they're even better at being old. Anything that's 300 million years old has to be extremely chemically stable or it would have decomposed by now. That extreme chemical stability means that rocks don't fade from exposure to UV light from the Sun like synthetic chemicals do (which is what the pigments in red, blue, green, yellow, orange, purple and magenta colourants are made from).

NOW, that last paragraph is ALMOST true. For the past dozen or so centuries artists have been making their pigments from pulverizing coloured rocks like ochre, umber, sienna (which is actually named after a village that still exists in Italy where the surrounding rocks and soil are a mustard yellow colour) and charcoal (which ain't a rock). Nowadays, the inorganic colourants used in the paint tinting machine are the same chemicals found in coloured rocks (iron oxides with impurities that make them change from a mustard yellow to a burnt orange to a rust colour to a chocolate brown to very dark brown (called "umber")), but the fact that the iron oxide and added impurities in them is man made and a synthetical product doesn't change it's characteristics. It just makes the supply of such pigments more reliable (cus they don't have to come from politically unstable areas) and of higher colour consistancy and of more uniform particle size (so as not to affect the gloss of the paint). However, if someone asks me why synthetic iron oxide isn't affected by UV light from the Sun, I can only answer "I don't know" (cuz I don't). But, when I explain to people that the exact same chemical is found in rocks that are 300 million years old, and therefore extremely chemically stable, they intuitively seem to understand that that chemical stability would manifest itself in less fading when exposed to Sunlight. And, of course, if rocks faded from Sunlight, they'd all be faded white as a ghost by now. The fact that the little village of Sienna is still as mustard yellow as ever is proof of the extreme chemical stability of these iron oxide compounds.

And,
D. Every kid that has ever played "hide and seek" outdoors knows that most rocks are opaque. Most people, however, don't know that the pigments used in "organic" colour (which are the colourwheel colours, or red, yellow, blue, green, orange, purple, and so on) look like tiny lumps of coloured plastic (with varying degrees of transparency, depending on the kind of pigment) under a microscope. Inorganic pigments look just like coloured rocks under a microscope. As a result, you generally get better hide with "inorganic pigments" (pronounced "pulverized rocks") than you do with organic pigments, because all of the iron oxides are opaque, but many of the organic pigments are fairly transparent. (That last statement assumes all other factors are equal.) Also, they can add more coloured pigments to an oil based paint than they can to a latex paint, so a pretinted oil based paint will normally hide better than a pretinted latex paint of the same colour.

(Tinting paint at the point of sale in a paint tinting machine is a whole nuther kettle of fish. The carrier fluid in the different colourants is glycerine (so that both oil and latex paints can be tinted with the same colourants) and glycerine affects film formation in latex paints completely differently than that of oil based paints. So, latex paints are more restricted on how much you can tint them at the point of sale. If you add the dry pigment right at the paint factory, you can add more dry pigment of any colour to a can of alkyd paint than you can a can of latex paint before you have problems.)

Sun Chemical is the biggest name in organic pigments used to make colourants for tinting paint:

http://www.sunchemical.com/performancepigments/

Unfortunately, Sun Chemical's web site isn't really set up to help DIY'ers like us learn more about organic pigments.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 06-17-2008 at 09:49 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2008, 09:28 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


And now you, Corcoran, know more than most people working in paint stores about latex paints.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 05:58 AM   #6
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


All very good information. Unfortunately I've seen several 100% acrylic paints of high quality, such as Duration and Accolade, go on in similar situations and remain sticky enough to cause the same issues for several days. They do cure out and loose the stickiness over time but it isn't always as quickly as you'd like. I still like oil when I've got tight fitting doors and windows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 06:40 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NEPA
Posts: 557
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


Quote:
Originally Posted by Corcoran1 View Post
I recently painted all my wood doors as well as the frames/jambs. Now when I put the doors back up and closed them, when I reopened them part of the paint from the jamb stuck on the door. I primed/sanded/prepped both surfaces and used latex paint. Did I use the wrong kind of paint? Should I have let it dry longer? Any way to prevent this from happening again?
Did you paint the top and bottom edges of the doors?
__________________

mark942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 07:00 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 550
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


The ideal coatings for things like doors, windows, and shelving, that are prone to sticking (also known as "blocking") are Waterbourne Enamels. These coatings have similar properties to oil-base enamels, without the hassle (and yellowing) that oil-base leaves you with.

The two most common that folks here use are Sherwin Williams ProClassic Waterbourne, and Benjamin Moore Waterbourne Impervo. (FYI, the Behr "Premium Enamel" is NOT what I am talking about here...)

These two coatings, when cured, form a hard "shell-like" coating that does not stick. They do take a little while to cure though, 1-2 weeks is pretty standard if your house is not humid.

These coatings are not as easy to use as a wall paint but they are far better for this use than a wall paint. Search this board for "ProClassic" for more information on how to apply it.

SirWired
sirwired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2008, 09:00 PM   #9
Tired, Cold, and Damp
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 3,089
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirwired View Post
The ideal coatings for things like doors, windows, and shelving, that are prone to sticking (also known as "blocking") are Waterbourne Enamels.


(though I still like the alkyd enamels, today's premium wb enamels are great )
slickshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2008, 04:27 PM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 26
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark942 View Post
Did you paint the top and bottom edges of the doors?
I did the top edge, just with one coat, but the doors don't touch at the top or bottom.

There is a lot of great info here, thank you so much. I think I just didn't let it dry long enough before I shut them. I'm not even living there yet so I will touch up and keep them open for a few weeks, see if that helps. If not I'll try that other paint.
Corcoran1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 07:03 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NEPA
Posts: 557
Default

Paint sticking at door/jamb


The reason I asked if you painted the top and bottom edges of the doors is because if you didn't, the doors will swell as the weather changes.If you have tight fitting doors to begin with and you do not paint both edges, the door will swell and you will have doors that will cause you troubles in the long run.

__________________


Last edited by mark942; 06-20-2008 at 11:47 AM.
mark942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BEHR Paint Problem Please advise PaintPro Painting 14 05-12-2012 11:15 PM
What's your "favorite" tip, when using "oil base" paint? Bobrobert Painting 15 01-17-2008 10:36 PM
Paint coming off of siding ciera Painting 5 07-01-2007 05:22 PM
my painter did not fallow the contract jaskoo Painting 17 11-19-2006 01:21 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.