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Old 12-11-2009, 04:23 PM   #1
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


Hi everyone,
I'm re-doing our kitchen and we ran into a paint pull-up issue when we caulked the countertop to the wall. (see pictures below).

Products:
paint - Benjamin Moore Aura Bath & Spa paint (K532-matte finish)
caulk - GE Silicone II Kitchen and Bath (white)
masking tape - Painter's Mate Green (www.thegreentape.com)

Event timeline:
1) Cleaned painted drywall using TSP, rinsed afterwords with water. Let walls dry for at least 48 hours.
2) Painted walls using the Aura paint (no primer) on both the unpainted drywall and painted drywall.
3) After 5 weeks of installing cabinets and lighting we installed the countertop.
4) To make a nice clean caulk line, we put green masking tape on the wall and countertop, then applied the silicone caulking. I ran my finger over the silicone to get it into the gap, and then immediately removed the masking tape. Approximate time the tape was on the wall was not more than 10 minutes, probably closer to 5 minutes. Also, as I was removing the tape, I did it slowly and kept the tape at about 90 degrees (pulling towards myself).

So, any ideas why the paint pulled up?

Is there a better way to caulk?

Is Aura paint by Benjamin Moore a crappy product?

Do the chemicals in the silicone react with the paint? According to GE, there is ammonia in the silicone as a carrier, but GE says that it does not react with paint.

Note: I called BM and BM said that it sounds like a preparation problem. When I mentioned the new drywall, they put my on hold and then came back to tell me it should have been cured for 60 days?!?! No where on the can does it say that -- it only mentions a 2-week drying time before the surface can be washed.

I'm not quite sure what to think right now. My previous experience with BM products has been quite good. I found BM's customer support very frustrating in the sense that they were only trying to cover their butts and not help address the issue.







Last edited by DIYatHome; 12-11-2009 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:41 PM   #2
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


No matter what they say I think it is better to prime new drywall. I was planning to paint my garage ceiling and not prime but now I plan to do it right and prime first.

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Old 12-11-2009, 05:50 PM   #3
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


Your problem is the result of not priming the raw drywall. Also, did you dry mop the drywall before you painted it? Drywall dust will prevent proper adhesion of your topcoats.

On new drywall, the surface must be cleaned with a microfibre mop - commercial grade.

Priming the raw drywall is necessary. Primer is much thinner than paint, and absorbs into the sheetrock, creating a solid surface for the topcoats to bond to.

Lastly, did you apply the paint at the recommended wet mil thickness? I believe aura is supposed to go on at 4.3 wet mils/coat. What size roller nap did you apply it with?
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:16 PM   #4
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

I do not know the wet mil thickness, but I did use a 3/8" (10 mm) nap roller and I did clean the new drywall using a microfibre cloth (although not commercial grade).

As for priming the drywall, I was told by the dealer that the AURA paint is self-priming (http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...eet_file_en_CA). Additionally, the paint also pulled-up on a previously painted surface.


What I find interesting is that if you look at the tape in the second picture, the pull-up is only in the bottom 1/3 of the tape. Why would it not pull-up all over?
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:42 PM   #5
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


once again always prime
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:53 PM   #6
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


BM says the Aura paint is "self-priming" but they also say apply 1 or 2 coats...

Each coat of paint acts as a 'primer' for the next coat. That's on a n average surface like a previously painted wall, but on tough surfaces, like plaster, drywall or wood, I would put 2 layers, if not three. If it were my choice, I'd put one layer of a real PVA primer, then a kitchen paint (not the bathroom product). I don't really need midewcide protection in the kitchen...but that's hindsight.

You have an adhesion problem between the existing surface - whatever that was - and the coat of paint. Now I know Aura dries faster than other paints and therefore, in my mind, it shrinks faster. That means it has more pull on the underlying surface...it 'curls up' - so to speak. Any weakness in the surface beneath will cause problems IMO.

The paint came off on the lower third because you applied more pressure there.

And no, BM Aura is not a "crappy" paint. Takes some getting used to, even for pros - but not a crappy paint. I think I'd call people crappy painters before I'd call Aura a crappy paint. After all, I don't know anyone who's had hunderds of millions of $ invested in them only to turn out to be "crappy".

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Old 12-11-2009, 08:35 PM   #7
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYatHome View Post
Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

I do not know the wet mil thickness, but I did use a 3/8" (10 mm) nap roller and I did clean the new drywall using a microfibre cloth (although not commercial grade).

As for priming the drywall, I was told by the dealer that the AURA paint is self-priming (http://www.benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb...eet_file_en_CA). Additionally, the paint also pulled-up on a previously painted surface.


What I find interesting is that if you look at the tape in the second picture, the pull-up is only in the bottom 1/3 of the tape. Why would it not pull-up all over?
Hi again DIYatHome,

A 3/8 nap roller (10 mil) will not put the required 4.3 wet mil thickness on a wall. The minimum nap a professional uses for wall paints is 15 mil.

A 10 mil is made for doors.

This seems to be a problem caused by stretching your paint too far. Home owners often, in the interest of saving a few dollars, attempt to apply their paint sparingly to a surface to avoid the extra $50-100 in product.

Aura is a professional grade finish - the problem is not with the paint, but with the application.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:43 PM   #8
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


You shold always prime. Looks like bare drywall under the lifted paint. How wet did you get the wall when you washed it might have soften the paper and caused delamination.

Last edited by voiles; 12-11-2009 at 10:47 PM. Reason: reread post
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Old 12-12-2009, 03:52 AM   #9
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Paint pull-up!?!? with BM Aura Bath & Spa, GE Silicone II, and PM Green tape


As stated always prime new drywall. Aura may say self priming but also says 2 coats are needed( or should). For best results, 1 coat drywall primer 2 coats finish paint. For the painted wall, 1 coat primer, 2 finish coats. Remember 30 days are needed for complete cure of latex paint. Since you were at the Ben Moore store for your Aura( arguably the best paint readily available) pick up some Fresh Start primer, problem solved.

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