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Old 12-27-2011, 11:57 PM   #46
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


am not all crazy into this subject ,to me its marketing hype.when i have a reason to prime i prime . grip,stain blocking,new wood,new dry wall, vapor barrier,gray primer for the reds and such,. i always price 2 coats no matter what ,this way when i leave a clients home their is no excuses, apologies,tap dancing ,nope its perfect and that's what they paid for anywho when i see a paint in primer in one or self priming all that tells me is that its a good paint. by the way sherwin williams super paint is my basic day in day out paint. the formula has not changed in years but now the label on the can says self priming .the manger at s/w looked at me and rolled his eyes. oh well what do i know? i don't have a lab jacket and i dont take my glasses off when i think

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Old 12-28-2011, 04:55 AM   #47
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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am not all crazy into this subject ,to me its marketing hype.when i have a reason to prime i prime . grip,stain blocking,new wood,new dry wall, vapor barrier,gray primer for the reds and such,. i always price 2 coats no matter what ,this way when i leave a clients home their is no excuses, apologies,tap dancing ,nope its perfect and that's what they paid for anywho when i see a paint in primer in one or self priming all that tells me is that its a good paint. by the way sherwin williams super paint is my basic day in day out paint. the formula has not changed in years but now the label on the can says self priming .the manger at s/w looked at me and rolled his eyes. oh well what do i know? i don't have a lab jacket and i dont take my gasses of when think
uh oh
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:52 AM   #48
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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uh oh
hey i'm getting better you have to admit
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:36 PM   #49
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hey i'm getting better you have to admit
true, true
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:50 PM   #50
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Very good stuff thank you so much for sharing!
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:12 AM   #51
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Thanks James, I read the whole review. Jack has a very scientific approach, and what he's found is compelling. It's basically the same results I achieved using ultra over bare drywall, the coverage was perfect (deep dark green) after one and the finish was very rich looking. My only concern with it is, does it bond? Jack didn't address that. I would suggest that all, even the Doubty Thomas', read Jack's review. Thanks for the contribution.
Joe
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D3359.htm

http://www.perfectwoodprofiles.com/d...%2021%2010.pdf

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Old 12-31-2011, 09:57 AM   #52
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight



All well and good if everybody's homes were built with "perfect wood"
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:14 PM   #53
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If you read the link to ASTM D 3359, you will see that the test is intended for a metal substraights and is also for light duty adhesion. Since most houses are not built with "Perfect Wood", i think that if a more strengent test method was used for the appropriate substraight the results would be more true and accurate. These test can be performed over wood,plaster or drywall according to application methods and cure times suggested by the manufacturer. Performance test such as Abbrasion test (scrubability), mold/mildew testing, UV exposure and flexability testing can be found on product data sheets for most quality coatings already. This information is not present on the Behr paint PDS so it probably has never been indepentently tested for its overall performance and longevity. Coverage and hiding power is only a small portion of what makes a quality paint. If someone really wanted to compair the overall performance of products, following the test standards set by ASTM would be an accurate way of doing so.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:05 PM   #54
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If you read the link to ASTM D 3359, you will see that the test is intended for a metal substraights and is also for light duty adhesion. Since most houses are not built with "Perfect Wood", i think that if a more strengent test method was used for the appropriate substraight the results would be more true and accurate. These test can be performed over wood,plaster or drywall according to application methods and cure times suggested by the manufacturer. Performance test such as Abbrasion test (scrubability), mold/mildew testing, UV exposure and flexability testing can be found on product data sheets for most quality coatings already. This information is not present on the Behr paint PDS so it probably has never been indepentently tested for its overall performance and longevity. Coverage and hiding power is only a small portion of what makes a quality paint. If someone really wanted to compair the overall performance of products, following the test standards set by ASTM would be an accurate way of doing so.
agreed
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:12 PM   #55
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


This information is not present on the Behr paint PDS so it probably has never been indepentently tested for its overall performance and longevity

I didn't know that this hadn't been done. Isn't that telling. And probably more Behr is sold than any paint, but "somehow" this kind of testing is not available, and all HO have is the Consumer Report that says if you're not willing to pay for the good stuff get this...
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:51 PM   #56
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


I see no indication of that testing standard on Aura Bath and Spa TDS either, but it ok's going over bare drwall. I am currently doing a bath remodel where I am testing it over existing drywall with a good bit of patching. The first coat looks pretty good for one coat. I'm also going to do a test with a piece of unprimed sheetrock that I will use for an adhesion test. I'll keep you posted. Thanks Mustang.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:33 AM   #57
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I see no indication of that testing standard on Aura Bath and Spa TDS either, but it ok's going over bare drwall. I am currently doing a bath remodel where I am testing it over existing drywall with a good bit of patching. The first coat looks pretty good for one coat. I'm also going to do a test with a piece of unprimed sheetrock that I will use for an adhesion test. I'll keep you posted. Thanks Mustang.
I've inserted a link to SW DTM Acrylic. As you can see, testing has been done on this product. What type of adhesion test are you going to do? The tape test will work if the adhesion power of the paint is less than the pull off strength of the tape. I like a pull off adhesion test with a mechanical gauge that records the results in inch pounds.


http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/web...prodno=B66W111

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Old 01-01-2012, 11:14 AM   #58
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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I've inserted a link to SW DTM Acrylic. As you can see, testing has been done on this product. What type of adhesion test are you going to do? The tape test will work if the adhesion power of the paint is less than the pull off strength of the tape. I like a pull off adhesion test with a mechanical gauge that records the results in inch pounds.


http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/web...prodno=B66W111
Funny that you mention that, I just got one of those in my stocking for Christmas from Mom. She hoped that would suffice because they were out of the sling psychrometer that I had asked for, which my heart was so set on I couldn't sleep Christmas eve.

Thanks Mike, I think that SW is better at documenting their products. I also think that that info is provided on the products which have industrial applications, like where your line of work comes in, where the tech matters. BM Aura Bath and Spa, how many industrial apps do you think that's seen? One thing I've noticed in my times on BM site is that I've never seen any of their industrial products. Maybe you have to dig deeper than I ever have. To answer your question, I'll use a masking tape test, pressed hard, and torn off like a band-aid. If it passes that it's okay for me.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #59
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Originally Posted by jsheridan;808983[COLOR=red
]Funny that you mention that, I just got one of those in my stocking for Christmas from Mom. She hoped that would suffice because they were out of the sling psychrometer that I had asked for, which my heart was so set on I couldn't sleep Christmas eve.[/COLOR]

Thanks Mike, I think that SW is better at documenting their products. I also think that that info is provided on the products which have industrial applications, like where your line of work comes in, where the tech matters. BM Aura Bath and Spa, how many industrial apps do you think that's seen? One thing I've noticed in my times on BM site is that I've never seen any of their industrial products. Maybe you have to dig deeper than I ever have. To answer your question, I'll use a masking tape test, pressed hard, and torn off like a band-aid. If it passes that it's okay for me.

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Old 01-03-2012, 01:32 PM   #60
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


I know questions regarding CHB have been covered elsewhere, but I think this thread applies...


The manager at the SW store mentioned CHB as being a paint/primer in one. I have new drywall throughout my 1k+ sq. condo and because they only sell their New Drywall Primer by the (gallon), he mentioned moving over to CHB as an alternative, similiar price. I asked if their 400 line primer was better, he mentioned CHB as being the same thing, the only difference was you could leave it as a flat ceiling paint. One or two coats of CHB and your done.

I went back and forth with him a little, stating I was going to prime and apply 2 finished coats, so the one coat application did not apply to my situation. He said, try CHB, if it does not compare to our NDP then bring it back and will swap it out for our 400 primer.


Thoughts? I put the brakes on... (again) and thinking this over before I start the project. I cut in one of the rooms already with SW NDP and I like it!!


James

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