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Old 12-15-2011, 08:02 PM   #31
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Thanks BJ, the site is real happy with it. It's actually making some rounds in different paint cos, how far I don't know. But people from Behr have recieved it, the pro desk manager at HD is forwarding it to his paint counter people and his glidden rep. And it's gone to numerous BM people store level and above. I was picking the brain of a BM sales rep at a dealer Christmas luncheon and followed it up with an email, including an invite to the forum. I told him it's a tough crowd here when it comes to paint and primer in one, which they're all on board with now. He stated unequivocally that you can put Aura over bare drywall with no problem. I said I'm not buying it until I see some proof, testing, samples, etc. So far, mad scientist Jack Pauhl is the only evidence I've seen, and that still doesn't tell me it's healthy.
I have a link to this thread at the ready. I'm going to try building a link library of the more valuable threads by category. We'll see, I'm gonna do a lot of things.


Last edited by jsheridan; 12-15-2011 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:22 AM   #32
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Thanks BJ, the site is real happy with it. It's actually making some rounds in different paint cos, how far I don't know. But people from Behr have recieved it, the pro desk manager at HD is forwarding it to his paint counter people and his glidden rep. And it's gone to numerous BM people store level and above. I was picking the brain of a BM sales rep at a dealer Christmas luncheon and followed it up with an email, including an invite to the forum. I told him it's a tough crowd here when it comes to paint and primer in one, which they're all on board with now. He stated unequivocally that you can put Aura over bare drywall with no problem. I said I'm not buying it until I see some proof, testing, samples, etc. So far, mad scientist Jack Pauhl is the only evidence I've seen, and that still doesn't tell me it's healthy.
I have a link to this thread at the ready. I'm going to try building a link library of the more valuable threads by category. We'll see, I'm gonna do a lot of things.

I think to problem with his "research" is sort of the same as CR's, , they have no valid info on what happens down the road
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:24 AM   #33
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Yes JS- Good article- I think we should have it at the ready when the subject comes up to link rather than write it out each time.

I have it tucked away and will do that since it seems I am up the earliest, most days.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:29 AM   #34
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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I think to problem with his "research" is sort of the same as CR's, , they have no valid info on what happens down the road
Exactamundo!

Yes, you are quite the early bird.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:25 AM   #35
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Kinda looks like he was intentionally trying to get the ICI and Duration to flash only rolling 1/3 of the wall at a time. And I also see 3 different shades of red there and that can make all the difference in the world when it comes to red. Also, in think SW has ColorAccents series which has true red bases, not the Ultra Deep Base he did the duration in.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:20 PM   #36
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


A quick observation... I was in both SW and BM over the weekend doing a little product and price comparison.

I noticed BM had display boards up on the wall, 4 in barn red and 4 in sky blue. Basically it was a comparison grid. The two top panels displayed BM products, Aqua and Regal select and on the bottom, SW's duration and BEHR's ultra. The display was finished in a one and two coat application over, smoke, a grey colored band, sharpie, crayon and lipstick. The Aqua and Regal select completely covered the markings on the second coat, and the end result looked great!! The SW duration and BEHR ultra, the marks remained and were definitely visible. It would take at least another coat(3) to cover up the marks for both brands. This applied for both the barn red and sky blue. Based on BM's testimony, the BEHR ultra is NOT a 1-coat cover up paint/primer in one. Unfortunately, neither is SW's duration, one of their more superior DIY'rs paint. But remember, and this is where BM gets you, the duration does NOT have a primer built in, SW’s SuperPaint does however and it costs 27% less than the duration.
To be fair, I am not comparing apples to apples either, both Regal select and Duration are great paints for their price points and they both have their unique qualities. The difference for me is about 16% per gallon, Regal being the more expensive.


That is all, take it for what it is...
James

Last edited by jawadesign; 12-19-2011 at 02:25 PM. Reason: period 2
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:44 PM   #37
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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I reported in another thread that I did a sample test of Duration exterior on a prepped, but unprimed, section of cornice. As it happened, two to three weeks went by between the first and second coats. When I got back to do the final coat, there were some areas of discoloration haze where, maybe tannin, there was bleed through. I don't know if the second coat will hold that back. Does anyone with Duration experience know if it will? I know there are a lot of pros out there who run Duration as a primer/paint. I'm not a convert, just doing a test. The rest of the job was primed with BM Penetrating Oil primer.
I was just reading through this whole thread. Came across your test with Duration. I use Duration a lot, but always prime as needed. You can't just apply Duration to raw substrate, I believe it even says on the can that some substartes need priminig with a primer. If the substrate is bare, especially cedar you would need to prime with the appropriate primer before applying duration. I've never had any problems with interior-exterior duration, but I do prime bare substrates first as you should. My SW rep even told me when Duration exterior first came out that you need to prime bare substrates.
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:50 PM   #38
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


James- does not have the primer built in?? Do you actually know what that means?
It means that is is acrylic based. That is all.
And not all acrylic resins are equal. Some are better at being primer.Some are better at being paints.
Read Ric knows paints contribution on the subject.
Read JS's column mentioned in another thread-

This stuff is not simple- thats why us pros have a job!
I like Farons line- how does the paint know how to put the primer part down first...lol
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:11 PM   #39
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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I was just reading through this whole thread. Came across your test with Duration. I use Duration a lot, but always prime as needed. You can't just apply Duration to raw substrate, I believe it even says on the can that some substartes need priminig with a primer. If the substrate is bare, especially cedar you would need to prime with the appropriate primer before applying duration. I've never had any problems with interior-exterior duration, but I do prime bare substrates first as you should. My SW rep even told me when Duration exterior first came out that you need to prime bare substrates.
What prompted me to do this experiment was that it said on the can that it can go over bare wood, exterior, and it wasn't cedar. I'll point you to the PDS, where it says it there as well. It also states that while some staining may appear throught the first coat, it will lock in. For stubborn stains use oil spot prime. I'm planning to do another experiment as well. In my conversation with a BM rep, he said that the resins (BJ) in Aura allow for applying directly over bare sheetrock and compound, and includes Aura Bath and Spa. He's absolutely certain, no bonding issues, no flashing, everything will be perfect. He said it is the ONLY product they carry that can do that, no others. The resins are specific to Aura. Store manager said to remember that he told you that. I plan to use the Bath and Spa in a bath where quite a bit of repair was done. I will justify the price difference in that it will save a coat of primer. I'm not selling out, but I think that we need to balance. New technology will allow certain things that past technologies wouldn't support. Since there is so much confusion and lack of info, and trust in what we're told isn't very high, the only way to learn what it can and can't do is try it. I told the rep that that is my history, take what the paint cos tell me as a guide only, and learn what the products will do by my own and others' experiments. I've learned not to believe everything the paint cos tell me. Confusion reigns.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:25 PM   #40
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Thanks Brushjockey for the explanation.

As it was explained to me by the SW manager, their Duration line does not include a primer, it's NOT a paint/primer hybrid. But the BM manager stated that their Regal select line is and that's why I feel BM's comparison display is skewed, they have a high end paint, two paint/primer hybrids and then the duration paint all side by side. Comparing cover-up capabilities… that's the point of the displays.

Yes, I am aware that there are different mixtures of chemicals that go into everything man made, but didn't realize that all it meant was it was acyrlic based... you make it sound so simple

Yes, painting is not and easy task, especially if you want a great looking finish that will last the test of time. It takes years of experience, tricks of the trade, the right tools and an idividual that gives a sh!t about the job. If you don't have that combo, expect less than 100% and a job that's OK at best.



James
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:09 PM   #41
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


This subject is totally confusing- partially because we are in the middle of a major change in all paint technologies.
As we've discussed here many times - when you think primer- think problem solver.
And to know which problem solver you need, you need to know what the problem is that you are solving.
One of the most basic , and somewhat easy to solve is dissimilar porosity- ie- mud/sheetrock/previously painted.
This will be where an all in wonder will usually work. But it will still take 2- 3 coats to get it to be even- so the first coat is acting like a primer.
In many cases, even though that will work, a real primer will do it better/faster/cheaper.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:34 PM   #42
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Ya know, primer sucks for coverage so I don't know why you would want it in your paint anyways.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:33 PM   #43
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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I like Farons line- how does the paint know how to put the primer part down first...lol


This is funny at first read, but the paint does know how to put the (primer) or additive with the adhesion promoter down first. IIRC, a lot of the all in one paints promote the NANO technology that basically slips in between the tooth of the drywall or paint, it bonds to every surface particle like glue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoparticle


As far as I know, no one here has a PhD in chemistry... nor do they have that degree specifically in the paint manufacturing process. So we are all guessing at this so called new paint technology and it's hybrid capabilities, testing it in the field, making our assessments and some are drawing their conclusions. It's going to take time to make true believers...

To brushjockeys point...
I too want a problem solver, a specific paint for that particular step of the job, not something that kind does it all in one package. As good as they say this paint is at covering up a prepainted wall in two steps, I would prefer to clean the wall first, prime it, then paint it. One extra step... that's OK with me.


paint... the basics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint

primer...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_primer

Last edited by jawadesign; 12-20-2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason: spacing
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:54 PM   #44
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


i came across this today and thought i would share

http://www.oneprojectcloser.com/pric...spar-paint-vs/

SW SuperPaint tested... (paint/"primer") when on sale it's in the low $30's


http://www.jackpauhl.com/2010/04/beh...ltra-eggshell/

SW Duration tested... why not compare apples to apples? btw, it's in the upper $30's during their sale period. the guys at SW state it's NOT their "all in one paint", not the best for coverup, but better for durability and potential mold compared to their SuperPaint.


i know there are a lot of factors in these independent tests, so draw your own conclusions... the way i see it, SW SuperPaint does a better job than Behr's Ultra at covering up


james

Last edited by jawadesign; 12-27-2011 at 09:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:58 PM   #45
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


I just bought some Super Spec today. But it was at a Benny Moore store...

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