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Old 09-23-2011, 02:37 PM   #16
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Most premium paints (regardless of the brand) are considered self priming, at least on certain surfaces. This still involves a minimum of a two coat application, if not three. Primers do not have the same physical characteristics as paints, although they may share some of the same ingredients. I am personally an advocate of using a primer for bonding or stain killing purposes for some substrates. The Behr commercials annoy me because they imply that one coat takes care of everything. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

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Old 09-23-2011, 04:17 PM   #17
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Most premium paints (regardless of the brand) are considered self priming, at least on certain surfaces. This still involves a minimum of a two coat application, if not three. Primers do not have the same physical characteristics as paints, although they may share some of the same ingredients. I am personally an advocate of using a primer for bonding or stain killing purposes for some substrates. The Behr commercials annoy me because they imply that one coat takes care of everything. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Old 09-23-2011, 05:13 PM   #18
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Most premium paints (regardless of the brand) are considered self priming, at least on certain surfaces. This still involves a minimum of a two coat application, if not three. Primers do not have the same physical characteristics as paints, although they may share some of the same ingredients. I am personally an advocate of using a primer for bonding or stain killing purposes for some substrates. The Behr commercials annoy me because they imply that one coat takes care of everything. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Will, this is the point. What is self-priming? What does that mean? I've asked on more occassions that I can remember, Can I put this over x, and x varies according to the job. The answer is always a CYA "I would use a primer first". Again, "self-priming" and paint and primer in one are two different things. "Self priming" has been on the cans for decades, long before P&P in one was even heard of. No one ever told me that it means you can paint right over bare substrates, ever. It means that if you have an old, degraded surface that would normally call for priming to seal, the paint will cover it, but still requires spot priming of bare spots. Even when I bought some Behr p&p for a low budget job, the guy told me I should prime first. At least Behr and SW, with Duration, are openly, and not in CYA manner, are saying yes, put this stuff right over unprimed surfaces. With BM, I asked a tech guy at BM hotline if I can put Aura right over unprimed and he said absolutely not. This just recently. And now BM is advertising as paint and primer in one? It's self-priming, as BM products have always been, but they're not p&p in one.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:10 AM   #19
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Will, this is the point. What is self-priming? What does that mean? I've asked on more occassions that I can remember, Can I put this over x, and x varies according to the job. The answer is always a CYA "I would use a primer first". Again, "self-priming" and paint and primer in one are two different things. "Self priming" has been on the cans for decades, long before P&P in one was even heard of. No one ever told me that it means you can paint right over bare substrates, ever. It means that if you have an old, degraded surface that would normally call for priming to seal, the paint will cover it, but still requires spot priming of bare spots. Even when I bought some Behr p&p for a low budget job, the guy told me I should prime first. At least Behr and SW, with Duration, are openly, and not in CYA manner, are saying yes, put this stuff right over unprimed surfaces. With BM, I asked a tech guy at BM hotline if I can put Aura right over unprimed and he said absolutely not. This just recently. And now BM is advertising as paint and primer in one? It's self-priming, as BM products have always been, but they're not p&p in one.
That just sucks
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:16 PM   #20
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Originally Posted by Will22 View Post
Most premium paints (regardless of the brand) are considered self priming, at least on certain surfaces. This still involves a minimum of a two coat application, if not three. Primers do not have the same physical characteristics as paints, although they may share some of the same ingredients. I am personally an advocate of using a primer for bonding or stain killing purposes for some substrates. The Behr commercials annoy me because they imply that one coat takes care of everything. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
For some reason, almost all these interior paints claim that they are "one coat paints."

Last week my wife & I painted her folks' kitchen, using Pittsburgh Paint her dad had bought. The paint had nice flow and coverage, and went on very well. I really liked it. But was it one coat, as it claimed in bold letters on the can? Only if we didn't care what the walls looked like...
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:36 PM   #21
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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For some reason, almost all these interior paints claim that they are "one coat paints."

Last week my wife & I painted her folks' kitchen, using Pittsburgh Paint her dad had bought. The paint had nice flow and coverage, and went on very well. I really liked it. But was it one coat, as it claimed in bold letters on the can? Only if we didn't care what the walls looked like...
You're a wise man Dr. Hicks. IMO, the one coat paint is a bigger hype than p&p in one. It can be so if, as you said, you don't care what the walls look like. In all my years, with all the jobs I've done, and all the different paints I've used, even BM Aura, I've never seen an acceptable coverage with one coat, ever. And actually, the closest I've ever seen was with a brownish Behr flat enamel that I did once in a kitchen. I did a job a while back, living room and dining room, both rooms in Aura, both in a different dark shade of brown. As good as the coverage looked after one, when I did the second cut-in, the area of the cut was a world away from the rolled first coat areas, both in the look of the finish and the color, completely different. The first coat lays down the base, the second coat fills it in and completes the job.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:00 PM   #22
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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As good as the coverage looked after one, when I did the second cut-in, the area of the cut was a world away from the rolled first coat areas, both in the look of the finish and the color, completely different. The first coat lays down the base, the second coat fills it in and completes the job.
I've never had an interior wall not look much better after the second coat, regardless of what kind of paint I was using. It's kind of a no-brainer.
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:23 PM   #23
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Back again folks with an update on my quest regarding paint and primer in one.That quest is twofold, not to disparage it, but to educate the consumer about what primer is and does, and try to find out the truth behind the claims by the manufacturers, the list of which is growing. To the first aim, I've published an article titled Paint vs Primer, which I believe is educational for those think paint is paint and primer is primer, and is consistent with what we try to advance here. The second is an effort to get the paint companies to become involved with the forum and help us understand their products and why/how their claims their paint and primers in one claims are valid. I've extended the invitation to reps from Behr and BM. The invite to BM is fresh, but the invite to Behr is stale and to date hasn't been accepted. That doesn't comfort me. I think that with the explosion of online marketing and knowledge advancement, that not participating in forums like this is a lost opportunity. Look at the bashing that Behr has taken, and there is no one here to defend them. I think they could add knowledge and create a more lively environment.
I was leery about doing self promotion here with the link to my article, but screw it. I don't make money off of the traffic generated. I spend a lot of time here helping others and trying to add to the fourm, all for free, so if I get a little recognition/promotion out of some of those efforts, so be it. Thanks. Merry Christmas! If you're not Christian, just say thanks and take it as wish for happiness.

Last edited by jsheridan; 12-15-2011 at 05:23 AM. Reason: edited out "then get over yourself".
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:38 AM   #24
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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Back again folks with an update on my quest regarding paint and primer in one.That quest is twofold, not to disparage it, but to educate the consumer about what primer is and does, and try to find out the truth behind the claims by the manufacturers, the list of which is growing. To the first aim, I've published an article titled Paint vs Primer, which I believe is educational for those think paint is paint and primer is primer, and is consistent with what we try to advance here. The second is an effort to get the paint companies to become involved with the forum and help us understand their products and why/how their claims their paint and primers in one claims are valid. I've extended the invitation to reps from Behr and BM. The invite to BM is fresh, but the invite to Behr is stale and to date hasn't been accepted. That doesn't comfort me. I think that with the explosion of online marketing and knowldege advancement, that not participating in forums like this is a lost opportunity. Look at the bashing that Behr has taken, and there is no one here to defend them. I think they could add knowledge and create a more lively environment.
I was leery about doing self promotion here with the link to my article, but screw it. I don't make money off of the traffic generated. I spend a lot of time here helping others and trying to add to the fourm, all for free, so if I get a little recognition/promotion out of some of those efforts, so be it. Thanks. Merry Christmas! If you're not Christian, just say thanks and take it as wish for happiness.

Dont hold your'e breath. I have my doubts BM will respond either
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:30 AM   #25
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


This is a LOT like the "Shampoo & Conditioner"...IN ONE marketing!

We've always HUMOROUSLY asked customers, if they inquire, "How does the primer in the paint...know how to get to the wall FIRST?!?!?!
* They're kinda stumped by that, then they smile!

There's a LOT of ways to advertise a paint as "P & P" in one.
* Reformulated bases can say that if they're 100% Acrylic....WHICH MOST DECENT PAINTS ARE ANYWAY!!!
* Some, like ACE's new "Clark + Kensington" P&P, use a new Ceramic-Microsphere main resin. There are already companies doing this obviously.
* BUT....it's not actually a PRIMER...according to "normal" definitions of primers.
* It's just an improved PAINT-RESIN, which forms a slightly tighter/denser film... >>> THAT ACTS LIKE A PRIMER <<<.
* In that respect, it can be "called" P&P-in-one.
* ACE DOES at least state on the label, instances where SEPARATE PRIMING IS NEEDED.
* Paints like these MAY do better on somewhat porous surfaces, than previous versions (of the same paint-line) did just a couple years ago. Therefore....they have kind of a "Priming EFFECT", without being an actual separate "Primer".

>>> Are the lines/marketing blurry and confusing nowadays...HELL YES!!!
This is one Industry development I wish never would've happened.
BUT...like cars...ya have to keep tweaking the same old thing!!!

Next thing ya know...Cake-mixes will come out with "CAKE AND FROSTING IN ONE"!!!
OR..."Bread & Butter in ONE"...OR..."Turkey & Dressing in ONE"...OR....
....OK I'll stop now....

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Old 12-15-2011, 12:09 PM   #26
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


is someone implying that we have our CAKE and EAT it too!?

i thought this was interesting... if what i'm seeing in these tests are real, pretty impressive!

BEHR premimum plus ULTRA

http://www.jackpauhl.com/2010/04/beh...ltra-eggshell/


but even as a DIY, not a pro, i still see the value in putting down a Primer!



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Old 12-15-2011, 01:48 PM   #27
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


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is someone implying that we have our CAKE and EAT it too!?

i thought this was interesting... if what i'm seeing in these tests are real, pretty impressive!

BEHR premimum plus ULTRA

http://www.jackpauhl.com/2010/04/beh...ltra-eggshell/


but even as a DIY, not a pro, i still see the value in putting down a Primer!



james
Thanks James, I read the whole review. Jack has a very scientific approach, and what he's found is compelling. It's basically the same results I achieved using ultra over bare drywall, the coverage was perfect (deep dark green) after one and the finish was very rich looking. My only concern with it is, does it bond? Jack didn't address that. I would suggest that all, even the Doubty Thomas', read Jack's review. Thanks for the contribution.
Joe
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:33 PM   #28
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Paint and Primer in One? Some Insight


Jack does good research and reviews and i strongly urge anyone wanting to go deeper to page through his site.
But be aware- he is very specific about what products and tools work best where. He will switch from one thing to the next to maximize anythings strong points.
So if your looking for a one answer to all things, Jack is not going to ever say that. His point of view is always maximum production.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:20 PM   #29
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I think Jack's a mad scientist. BJ, did you get my mail?
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:32 PM   #30
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Yes JS- Good article- I think we should have it at the ready when the subject comes up to link rather than write it out each time.

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