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View Poll Results: What do you think of Paint and Primer in One
There is Primer in the Paint 0 0%
Marketing Ploy 14 93.33%
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:44 PM   #1
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Paint and Primer in One?


Curious to see opinions from a DIY'er point of view on Paint and Primer in One.

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Old 02-23-2014, 07:46 PM   #2
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Paint and Primer in One?


If you're talking about Behr, be prepared to hear nothing good.

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Old 02-24-2014, 05:19 AM   #3
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Paint and Primer in One?


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If you're talking about Behr, be prepared to hear nothing good.
Lol no, I've been down that rabbithole over on PaintTalk.

Behr intruduced Paint and Primer in One and every other manufacture soon followed suit.

I know where contractors stand on it I'm just curious to see if diyers feel the same.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:41 AM   #4
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Paint and Primer in One?


From my experience with lower level paints previously i'd say it's garbage and a ploy. BUT the one exception that I plan on using in the near future is BM Aura. I haven't used it yet but I know pros are fond of it, so I'm sure it's good stuff.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:46 AM   #5
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Paint and Primer in One?


Aura is hands down the best paint I've ever applied. Supposedly you can use it over bare Sheetrock but I'd still prime anyways.

Because of the cost I mainly only use it on dark or hard to cover colors.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:15 AM   #6
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Paint and Primer in One?


Not DIY but if OK I'll give my opinion I don't think Aura is a good DIY paint it drys so fast that I believe it causes problems because they aren't expecting it. Heck it caused some problems for pros the first time they used it. Now back to the question. I have never had a P&P work for me. In fact right now I am fixing a job where someone did patch work on some walls then painted with P&P and all the repairs flashed thru.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:18 AM   #7
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Paint and Primer in One?


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Not DIY but if OK I'll give my opinion I don't think Aura is a good DIY paint it drys so fast that I believe it causes problems because they aren't expecting it. Heck it caused some problems for pros the first time they used it. Now back to the question. I have never had a P&P work for me. In fact right now I am fixing a job where someone did patch work on some walls then painted with P&P and all the repairs flashed thru.
That's a great point! I can see Aura in the hands of a HO turn bad real fast.

So strike one against P&P.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:42 AM   #8
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Paint and Primer in One?


When you consider that a lot of chemistry goes into paint.....I find it hard to believe that a P&P could give you the same performance as doing primer and then paint.

What is the primary purpose of primer? Creating a good base for paint to stick to. Besides the chemical properties, there are also a lot of mechanical properties. I see drying as being one of the steps that gives primer some of it's mechanical properties.

I compare it this way.....it would be like having a cake mix that had both cake and icing in one step.....it might work....but....what have your compromised to get there?
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:48 AM   #9
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Paint and Primer in One?


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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
When you consider that a lot of chemistry goes into paint.....I find it hard to believe that a P&P could give you the same performance as doing primer and then paint.

What is the primary purpose of primer? Creating a good base for paint to stick to. Besides the chemical properties, there are also a lot of mechanical properties. I see drying as being one of the steps that gives primer some of it's mechanical properties.

I compare it this way.....it would be like having a cake mix that had both cake and icing in one step.....it might work....but....what have your compromised to get there?
You hit the nail on the head! In fact if you read the back of a P&P can they usually list a ton of things you'll need a real primer for and which one they recommend.

There was someone on painttalk saying they worked at a paint store when the whole P&Pin1 came about. They said the manufacturer (Clark & Kennsington it think) send them Paint & Primer in One stickers to put on their old stock.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:32 AM   #10
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Paint and Primer in One?


I apologize for going a bit off topic here, but since I have knowledgable people here I'll ask. I've always used SW with good success but want to try BM. I'm a better than average DIY'er but no pro by far. So if Aura might be viewed as a challenge, and if I prime separate with a good quality primer, what BM paint do you then recommend (Regal?). Cost is NOT a sticking point, I have no problem spending the extra on my house. Chances are I'll still be adventurous and try a gallon of Aura. If I screw it up I'll paint over it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:11 AM   #11
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Paint and Primer in One?


This is, and will continue to be a topic of discussion for some time. Part of the reason for that is "paint & primer" is a totally foreign concept to those who have grown up in the industry with the universally accepted surface preparation guideline that includes the use of a primer in specific applications (especially when considering raw surfaces...).

The argument regarding the validity of an actual "Paint & Primer" has been exacerbated by the fact that the manufacturers that offer "P&P's" have offered virtually no instruction, training, definition or explanation as to how/why such a concept could, should - or would work - especially since it goes against everything the manufacturers - and the industry - has touted for so long as the best means of preparation and application. Am I the only one that sees that as odd? If, as a manufacturer, you had developed an innovative new product, capable of rendering obsolete a best practice system spanning several generations - thus saving both labor and material...wouldn't you be on the damned mountain top telling the world of such a new and innovative, cost saving product? But no one does. No manufacturer has approached the architects and spec-writers of the world to say that primers are no longer necessary - nor has any spec been written calling for 2 coats of P&P on bare drywall instead of the usually 1 coat prime then 2 coats finish. Interesting.

But, here's another viewpoint to this never-ending discussion. Rohm & Haas is the nation's (and perhaps the world's) largest resin manufacturer and producer. All paint manufacturer's buy resin from Rohm & Haas. Rohm & Haas is the author of the Paint Quality Institute (PQI) that is an industry recognized training program for all associated in the painting industry. PQI does a great job keeping people informed of changes within the industry both from an application and compositional perspective. IMO, they are a very credible source for quality information. I am re-posting a link I posted several months ago regarding this same subject. Rohm & Haas regard this new technology (currently being marketed as "Paint & Primer") with a more realistic presentation - one based more on fact and scientific study than BS marketing garbage. Rohm & Haas has called these new formulations "DTS" (Direct to Substrate) finishes then compares their performance to the more conventional applications - it's actually kinda eye-opening stuff.

The DTS principle is not a far cry from "DTM" technologies (of which, some of you haven't yet bought into that program either) - But these products are capable of doing far more than finish products of yesterday - and whether your personal feelings toward these advancements are good, bad or indifferent, they do offer an alternative to more conventional practices.

By the way...I am not a painter...nor manufacturer...nor anyway affiliated with Rohm & Haas - I'm just trying to present a different side of an argument.

http://www.paintquality.com/search.html?q=dts

(that may not have uploaded properly, you may just have to key it in)
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:58 PM   #12
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Paint and Primer in One?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jb1234 View Post
I apologize for going a bit off topic here, but since I have knowledgable people here I'll ask. I've always used SW with good success but want to try BM. I'm a better than average DIY'er but no pro by far. So if Aura might be viewed as a challenge, and if I prime separate with a good quality primer, what BM paint do you then recommend (Regal?). Cost is NOT a sticking point, I have no problem spending the extra on my house. Chances are I'll still be adventurous and try a gallon of Aura. If I screw it up I'll paint over it.
If I were using a BM product that wasn't Aura I'd go with Regal.

My question is why not stay with SW if you haven't had any problems?

Have you tried the SW Cashmere? It's hands down my favorite SW interior paint.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:00 PM   #13
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Paint and Primer in One?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ric knows paint View Post
This is, and will continue to be a topic of discussion for some time. Part of the reason for that is "paint & primer" is a totally foreign concept to those who have grown up in the industry with the universally accepted surface preparation guideline that includes the use of a primer in specific applications (especially when considering raw surfaces...).

The argument regarding the validity of an actual "Paint & Primer" has been exacerbated by the fact that the manufacturers that offer "P&P's" have offered virtually no instruction, training, definition or explanation as to how/why such a concept could, should - or would work - especially since it goes against everything the manufacturers - and the industry - has touted for so long as the best means of preparation and application. Am I the only one that sees that as odd? If, as a manufacturer, you had developed an innovative new product, capable of rendering obsolete a best practice system spanning several generations - thus saving both labor and material...wouldn't you be on the damned mountain top telling the world of such a new and innovative, cost saving product? But no one does. No manufacturer has approached the architects and spec-writers of the world to say that primers are no longer necessary - nor has any spec been written calling for 2 coats of P&P on bare drywall instead of the usually 1 coat prime then 2 coats finish. Interesting.

But, here's another viewpoint to this never-ending discussion. Rohm & Haas is the nation's (and perhaps the world's) largest resin manufacturer and producer. All paint manufacturer's buy resin from Rohm & Haas. Rohm & Haas is the author of the Paint Quality Institute (PQI) that is an industry recognized training program for all associated in the painting industry. PQI does a great job keeping people informed of changes within the industry both from an application and compositional perspective. IMO, they are a very credible source for quality information. I am re-posting a link I posted several months ago regarding this same subject. Rohm & Haas regard this new technology (currently being marketed as "Paint & Primer") with a more realistic presentation - one based more on fact and scientific study than BS marketing garbage. Rohm & Haas has called these new formulations "DTS" (Direct to Substrate) finishes then compares their performance to the more conventional applications - it's actually kinda eye-opening stuff.

The DTS principle is not a far cry from "DTM" technologies (of which, some of you haven't yet bought into that program either) - But these products are capable of doing far more than finish products of yesterday - and whether your personal feelings toward these advancements are good, bad or indifferent, they do offer an alternative to more conventional practices.

By the way...I am not a painter...nor manufacturer...nor anyway affiliated with Rohm & Haas - I'm just trying to present a different side of an argument.

http://www.paintquality.com/search.html?q=dts

(that may not have uploaded properly, you may just have to key it in)
I wish I could thank that post twice!

Great food for thought, I've never even heard of Rohm & Haas.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:11 PM   #14
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Paint and Primer in One?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rbriggs82 View Post
If I were using a BM product that wasn't Aura I'd go with Regal.

My question is why not stay with SW if you haven't had any problems?

Have you tried the SW Cashmere? It's hands down my favorite SW interior paint.
Because I'm one of those that's never content and always looking for different and think better is out there. Haha. Last time I used SW Emerald and thought it was very good, but was a bit on the fence if it was worth it. I was curious about Cashmere because of reading it's one of their more user friendly paints. I have our small office to do in the near future so I guess I'll decide which one at that point since it won't be any huge gamble. I always prime and don't mind priming. I'm one of those that I don't care if it needs 4 coats to look perfect, when I know some people want to be done in 1 and call it good. I'd probably try the Cashmere then. If it's cheaper and easier to work with, and most importantly if I like the results, then I guess that's my answer.

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Old 02-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #15
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Paint and Primer in One?


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Because I'm one of those that's never content and always looking for different and think better is out there. Haha. Last time I used SW Emerald and thought it was very good, but was a bit on the fence if it was worth it. I was curious about Cashmere because of reading it's one of their more user friendly paints. I have our small office to do in the near future so I guess I'll decide which one at that point since it won't be any huge gamble. I always prime and don't mind priming. I'm one of those that I don't care if it needs 4 coats to look perfect, when I know some people want to be done in 1 and call it good. I'd probably try the Cashmere then. If it's cheaper and easier to work with, and most importantly if I like the results, then I guess that's my answer.
You'll be happy it's there best paint. I especially like the finish of the flat enamel.

I've used Emerald on a couple occasions and was left disappointed.

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