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DRIFT-O-MATIC 02-12-2012 10:24 PM

Paint over Waterproofer?
 
I have a question about how to solve a paint problem. My goal was to build a portable outdoor dance floor out of twelve sheets of ¾”x4’x8’ cabinet grade plywood. I coated both sides of each panel generously with two coats of Thomson’s WaterSeal Clear Multi-Surface WaterProofer with a paint roller. After 14 days of curing time, I put on my suede-sole dance shoes and tried out one of the panels for “dancibility”. I was very disappointed. It is not slick enough to do spins and turns. Not only that, it still feels as though there is a slight oiliness to the surface which contaminates the suede on the bottom of my dance shoes. Now, I wish I had primed and top-coated them with an oil-based gloss enamel paint. My next step was to do just that. I went to Lowe’s to their paint department, to get their advice. They recommended sanding and painting with Valspar High Performance Oil Gloss Porch & Floor Paint. So, I did a test strip. Two of the sheets need to have 12 inches ripped off of them, anyway. So I used one of these areas for a test sample. I painted the enamel on a 12”x12” patch, and let it cure for two days. To my dismay, some of the topcoat can be scooped off with my fingernail. One disappointment after another. :-( If I didn’t have so much money invested in it already, I’d start over with new sheets of plywood! So my question is, are there any paints or varnishes out there that can be applied to this sealed plywood that will provide a hard gloss surface and that stick? I really hope these sheets can be salvaged somehow.

Yours truly perplexed,
David

joecaption 02-12-2012 10:40 PM

That plywood is never going to hold up outside, in fact no plywood is going to work for long, then you used one of the lowest rated sealers over that.
Use used an inside rated plywood, it has no waterproof glue in the plys and will delaminiate.
Also paints just not going to hold up over time on a dance floor let alone being applyed over wood that already had an oily sealer over it.
It was suggested to you on another web site to install quality linolioum over it, what happened to that idea? That would have protected the plywood from water from rain at least and have be slippery.

cibula11 02-12-2012 10:59 PM

The linoleum isn't a bad idea. Otherwise, you could buy some porch and floor paint (gloss) and apply a couple of coats. I just did this in my basement and it is surprising durable. Not sure how long it will last in the elements, but worth a shot. Probably looking at $30 for a gallon.

ric knows paint 02-12-2012 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRIFT-O-MATIC (Post 852045)
I have a question about how to solve a paint problem. My goal was to build a portable outdoor dance floor out of twelve sheets of ¾”x4’x8’ cabinet grade plywood. I coated both sides of each panel generously with two coats of Thomson’s WaterSeal Clear Multi-Surface WaterProofer with a paint roller. After 14 days of curing time, I put on my suede-sole dance shoes and tried out one of the panels for “dancibility”. I was very disappointed. It is not slick enough to do spins and turns. Not only that, it still feels as though there is a slight oiliness to the surface which contaminates the suede on the bottom of my dance shoes. Now, I wish I had primed and top-coated them with an oil-based gloss enamel paint. My next step was to do just that. I went to Lowe’s to their paint department, to get their advice. They recommended sanding and painting with Valspar High Performance Oil Gloss Porch & Floor Paint. So, I did a test strip. Two of the sheets need to have 12 inches ripped off of them, anyway. So I used one of these areas for a test sample. I painted the enamel on a 12”x12” patch, and let it cure for two days. To my dismay, some of the topcoat can be scooped off with my fingernail. One disappointment after another. :-( If I didn’t have so much money invested in it already, I’d start over with new sheets of plywood! So my question is, are there any paints or varnishes out there that can be applied to this sealed plywood that will provide a hard gloss surface and that stick? I really hope these sheets can be salvaged somehow.

Yours truly perplexed,
David

Hey David,

Since you're building a portable dance floor, I assume it's not gonna be under constant exposure to the elements? If that's the case, methinks you're in luck. Thompson's is not a bad product, if you know what you're buying from the start. It is recommended to only apply 1 light coat to plywood, at a rate of about 300 square feet per gallon...Any more than that and it could turn out "oily" (sound familiar?) - So, since you applied 2 generous coats and it is, in fact, oily...you need to clean the surface with a cleaner/degreaser to remove excess oils. Following that, allow the treated plywood to continue curing for a minimum of 30 days, then apply 1 coat of oil-based primer (not latex) and followed by 1 or 2 coats of gloss oil based floor enamel. Give this system about 10 days before vigorous testing with the old soft shoe, and you should be OK.

ratherbefishin' 02-12-2012 11:14 PM

The point that's being missed here is that deck sealers and floor paints are engineered to NOT be slippery. Just slap a few coats of paste wax on the darn thing, buff it well, and sprinkle some powdered dance/shuffleboard wax on it when it's set up for use. I assume by "portable" that you'll be storing it indoors when not in use?

DRIFT-O-MATIC 02-12-2012 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 852063)
That plywood is never going to hold up outside, in fact no plywood is going to work for long, then you used one of the lowest rated sealers over that.
Use used an inside rated plywood, it has no waterproof glue in the plys and will delaminiate.
Also paints just not going to hold up over time on a dance floor let alone being applyed over wood that already had an oily sealer over it.
It was suggested to you on another web site to install quality linolioum over it, what happened to that idea? That would have protected the plywood from water from rain at least and have be slippery.

This is a portable TEMPORARY floor. It will only be used for a few hours, and then stored inside.

I researched the linoleum idea, but all the manufacturers stated that their products are NOT for exterior use.

So, this is the route I chose, hoping it will be cheaper in the long run.

DRIFT-O-MATIC 02-12-2012 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ric knows paint (Post 852092)
Hey David,

Since you're building a portable dance floor, I assume it's not gonna be under constant exposure to the elements? If that's the case, methinks you're in luck. Thompson's is not a bad product, if you know what you're buying from the start. It is recommended to only apply 1 light coat to plywood, at a rate of about 300 square feet per gallon...Any more than that and it could turn out "oily" (sound familiar?) - So, since you applied 2 generous coats and it is, in fact, oily...you need to clean the surface with a cleaner/degreaser to remove excess oils. Following that, allow the treated plywood to continue curing for a minimum of 30 days, then apply 1 coat of oil-based primer (not latex) and followed by 1 or 2 coats of gloss oil based floor enamel. Give this system about 10 days before vigorous testing with the old soft shoe, and you should be OK.

Thanks. That's a good idea. I will try it on a test sheet.

DRIFT-O-MATIC 02-12-2012 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratherbefishin' (Post 852097)
The point that's being missed here is that deck sealers and floor paints are engineered to NOT be slippery. Just slap a few coats of paste wax on the darn thing, buff it well, and sprinkle some powdered dance/shuffleboard wax on it when it's set up for use. I assume by "portable" that you'll be storing it indoors when not in use?

Also a good idea. I will try this on a test strip, also. This would be the simplest solution, if it works. Thanks. I, also, would rather be fishin'.

Rob1975 02-12-2012 11:42 PM

I agree with ratherbefishin. The products that you are using are made to cure with a low slip finish. I like the wax idea, however I have never made a dance floor.

jsheridan 02-13-2012 07:34 AM

Occam's Razor, the simplest answer/explanation is usually the correct one. If this is to be used outside, presumably not during snow or rain--therefore only during dry, comfortable weather, and stored inside, you have no need to be concerned about "exterior". What you're describing is not an exterior application. It's qausi, but exterior products won't be required. I would investigate how a true dance floor is constructed and what type of coating they use to make it slidable, and do that. Unless you do that, you're only going to have a painted plywood deck instead of a "dance floor". I got through that without any jokes, I'm proud of myself.

Rob1975 02-13-2012 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 852255)
Occam's Razor, the simplest answer/explanation is usually the correct one. If this is to be used outside, presumably not during snow or rain--therefore only during dry, comfortable weather, and stored inside, you have no need to be concerned about "exterior". What you're describing is not an exterior application. It's qausi, but exterior products won't be required. I would investigate how a true dance floor is constructed and what type of coating they use to make it slidable, and do that. Unless you do that, you're only going to have a painted plywood deck instead of a "dance floor". I got through that without any jokes, I'm proud of myself.

The only exception is if you are placing it on the ground. Moisture from the ground will penetrate the under side. If anything treat the bottom with exterior grade products and the top as described above.

jsheridan 02-13-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1975 (Post 852296)
The only exception is if you are placing it on the ground. Moisture from the ground will penetrate the under side. If anything treat the bottom with exterior grade products and the top as described above.

Thanks Rob, I should have expressed that. It goes without saying. I would just suggest use of a quality waterproofing material rather than paint. Why create a surface that needs prep as opposed to just recoat over time. but, given it gets no direct exposure to harsh elements, i.e., UV, it will probably never need revisiting.

DRIFT-O-MATIC 02-13-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 852304)
Thanks Rob, I should have expressed that. It goes without saying. I would just suggest use of a quality waterproofing material rather than paint. Why create a surface that needs prep as opposed to just recoat over time. but, given it gets no direct exposure to harsh elements, i.e., UV, it will probably never need revisiting.

Both very good points. However, I did mention that both sides were saturated with two generous coats of the waterproofer. So I won't need to do anything to the bottom sides. Also, I did not mention that the plywood panels will not be laying tightly against the concrete slab. I will be strategically placing pieces of old carpet under all the panels to create a floating floor effect. Only the perimeter molding will be securely attached to the slab with tapcons. This molding will function as retainers to keep the tongue and grooved plywood together, and prevent shifting.

Rob1975 02-13-2012 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 852304)
Thanks Rob, I should have expressed that. It goes without saying. I would just suggest use of a quality waterproofing material rather than paint. Why create a surface that needs prep as opposed to just recoat over time. but, given it gets no direct exposure to harsh elements, i.e., UV, it will probably never need revisiting.

I agree! :thumbsup:


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