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Old 03-08-2009, 07:40 PM   #1
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


Ok. A while ago I asked what primer to use for a poplar board (coat hook in mud room) so the grain/knots would not bleed through.

Oil-based shellac was suggested and I used that.

Sand, first coat of shellac, sand (lightly), second coat of shellac, sand, first coat of latex semi-gloss paint, sand and then second coat - ok so far. Looking like a really nice finish.

Put the board up, install MDF beadboard wainscot below. Doing prep work - lightly sand mdf, latex caulk for seams between boards and caulk where the beadboard meets the bottom of the coat hook board before I paint.

As I am caulking, using a wet finger, I start to notice the paint coming off the board in some areas where my wet finger/damp cloth has been.

What is going on here? I have never experienced this with painted trim using latex primer and paint. I have caulked my complete dining room trimmed out in panelling, crown and trim and have never had this problem.

I also had the same thing happen with the door frame we made - as I went to put on the second coat of paint, the original coat started to peel off.

Please, tell me what I did wrong.

Thanks in advance, Sandy

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Old 03-08-2009, 08:51 PM   #2
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


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Originally Posted by SandyK View Post
Ok. A while ago I asked what primer to use for a poplar board (coat hook in mud room) so the grain/knots would not bleed through.

Oil-based shellac was suggested and I used that.

Sand, first coat of shellac, sand (lightly), second coat of shellac, sand, first coat of latex semi-gloss paint, sand and then second coat - ok so far. Looking like a really nice finish.

Put the board up, install MDF beadboard wainscot below. Doing prep work - lightly sand mdf, latex caulk for seams between boards and caulk where the beadboard meets the bottom of the coat hook board before I paint.

As I am caulking, using a wet finger, I start to notice the paint coming off the board in some areas where my wet finger/damp cloth has been.

What is going on here? I have never experienced this with painted trim using latex primer and paint. I have caulked my complete dining room trimmed out in panelling, crown and trim and have never had this problem.

I also had the same thing happen with the door frame we made - as I went to put on the second coat of paint, the original coat started to peel off.

Please, tell me what I did wrong.

Thanks in advance, Sandy

I am not sure what product you used to seal the poplar. I would have used either oil based kilz or alcohol based shallac (Bin). How long did you wait before caulking. I have used these products for many years and there should not be any problems.

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Old 03-08-2009, 09:08 PM   #3
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


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I am not sure what product you used to seal the poplar. I would have used either oil based kilz or alcohol based shallac (Bin). How long did you wait before caulking. I have used these products for many years and there should not be any problems.
I used Bin.

The board was finished over a week ago, we put it up yesterday, along with the beadboard. Prep work today - that's when I ran into the problem.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:31 PM   #4
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What brand of paint are you using and what kind?
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:52 PM   #5
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


Bob,

I am using SW Latex semi-gloss.

I also gave plenty of time between coats.

I do intend to give everything, coathook board, beadboard and bench a finish coat of polyurethane - probably more than one coat.

Last edited by SandyK; 03-08-2009 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:40 AM   #6
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Good brand of paint... But this symptom seems like it couold be from one of these issues... poor paint. old paint.. area was too humid to paint...unknown interaction of primer and top coat

Why the poly top coats? What color... oil poly will yellow.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:20 AM   #7
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Why the poly top coats? What color... oil poly will yellow.
Well...I want a protective sheen on all the wood and beadboard - and I definitely don't want it to yellow - Dover white on wood, BM Danville Tan on beadboard.

What should I use for a high-gloss, durable, non-yellowing finish?

This is a mudroom, so will likely get some abuse and banging-up by the kids.

Thanks again.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:50 AM   #8
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A high quality high gloss oil paint will be the way to go. If you insist on the poly, use a water-based clear which will yellow less but still yellow.
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:58 AM   #9
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Sandy, You stated that you used an oil based shellac. Did you use thinner in the primer that you used.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:47 AM   #10
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A high quality high gloss oil paint will be the way to go. If you insist on the poly, use a water-based clear which will yellow less but still yellow.
I thought the SW semi-gloss would be fine - it is what I have used for 10+ years for all my doors, trim, etc in every home I've owned. I have never experienced this before while using latex primer, same paint and the same procedure for caulking and prepping - so it kind of freaked me out. Normally, I don't put on a clear finish coat, the semi-gloss sheen is usually what I'm after, but since this is a mudroom, I wanted a little bit of extra protection - hence the finish clear coat.

We did this whole room with the same paint, prep and finish - the only difference was the primer.



I am thinking that something must be bad in either the paint or the primer I used - bad reaction as Bob said.

I am open to other types of finishes, I just assumed water-based poly would be fine. Any others that would fit the bill of durable, non-yellowing?

Quote:
Sandy, You stated that you used an oil based shellac. Did you use thinner in the primer that you used.
No. Should I have? The Bin shellac was pretty thin on it's own, I gave it 2 coats of Bin - came out with a really, really smooth nice surface - until the second coat of paint.

I appreciate all the help and ideas.

I'll just have to resand the spots that peeled and repaint - since I am not talking it down.

Last edited by SandyK; 03-09-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:09 PM   #11
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Well the reason I asked about adding thinner was because Bin is alcohol based not oil based. I can't think of what would have happened. I have been using this process for over 20 yrs. Sorry I can't help.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:14 PM   #12
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


I'll try to troubleshoot this for you..FYI - if the paint is not adhering putting a topcoat of poly on is not going to solve your problem.

Very important however, is the paint peeling away from the primer or is the peeling going right down to bare wood? In other words is the primer still in tact or did the primer peel off as well?
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:08 PM   #13
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


Hmmm... did you take care to thoroughly remove the sanding dust? That's all I can come up with.

For curiosity's sake, which SW paint are you using?

But yes, as others have said, Poly will not fix a failing paint job.

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Old 03-13-2009, 07:22 AM   #14
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Paint experts; Tell me what's going on here


Little off-topic.... but that room is awesome!!!! Pretty much the same type of style I would eventually like to have...

Can you send me some tips?

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