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Old 02-01-2014, 08:17 PM   #16
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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Originally Posted by Dave88LX View Post
Ric,

Thanks for the detailed reply. My basement has that insulation down to the floor, an also an HVAC unit sitting on the floor. The only thing I'm a bit nervous about is rinsing the floor? How would I accomplish this? I have a sump pit but it currently has a pump in it. When I rinsed my garage floor after acid etch, I just squeegee'd it all out the door.

I'm pretty sure that my concrete is not sealed. Some water drops should tell me that, right?
Hey Dave,

It seems unlikely the contractor wouldn't use a sealer (hardener/curing agent, etc) especially in a new home...If he didn't, your floor would be extremely dusty and absolutely need some type of finish (sealer or paint or both) to make the room inhabitable. But if that's the case, I'm not sure mopping it with a non-sudsing detergent would actually accomplish anything. If you have that kind of dust problem I think a good thorough vacuuming with a powerful shop vac may be all the prep you need...and yes, the water test should determine if sealers were present or not.

Even though most manufacturers won't recommend a primer beneath an acrylic floor enamel, your case may be the exception. Once the dust is removed by vacuum, I'd immediately apply an application of the same products I mentioned earlier and I especially like that Richard's product. Applying this type of sealer will seal the concrete + bind in any dust that wasn't removed by vacuuming and still provide a great foundation for a new application of acrylic floor paint. You can even mix the sealer and paint together (50/50) if you want the color to go a little deeper into the concrete, although doing this will probably still require a second coat of acrylic, full-bodied be applied.

If, for whatever reason, you opted to mop the floor with a detergent anyway, I'd rinse the floor by applying clean water through a pump-up garden sprayer, or just splash clean water onto the surface via a plastic sprinkling pail, then broom sweep or squeegee any excess to the sump pit or floor drain.

Again, none of these procedures we've discussed will create any abnormal, constant or extreme maintenance issues...but what a difference it will make in terms of dust control, subsequent cleanability (I think that's a word) and aesthetics.

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Old 02-02-2014, 07:42 AM   #17
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


First I would perform a moisture test on the floor. Take a piece of plastic about 1 foot x 1 foot, place in the center of the floor, tape it around the edges tight to the floor, leave it there about 24 hours and then check for moisture inside the plastic. If moisture is present you would have to resolve the moisture issue first.
The floor needs to be cleaned well and if it is real smooth should be acid etched to roughen it up a little bit.
I would apply Sherwin Williams - H&C Masonry Stain - solid
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:59 PM   #18
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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Hey Dave,

It seems unlikely the contractor wouldn't use a sealer (hardener/curing agent, etc) especially in a new home...If he didn't, your floor would be extremely dusty and absolutely need some type of finish (sealer or paint or both) to make the room inhabitable. But if that's the case, I'm not sure mopping it with a non-sudsing detergent would actually accomplish anything. If you have that kind of dust problem I think a good thorough vacuuming with a powerful shop vac may be all the prep you need...and yes, the water test should determine if sealers were present or not.
I dumped some water in a few different spots and it soaked right into the concrete -- good. I took a walk around; the HVAC and water heater are up on blocks off the floor, so that is good. What's not good is that the insulation they use on the walls goes all the way to the floor and I don't want to risk getting water into that.

I have this shop vac, it should be powerful enough:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-16...Z2bctrmZ2bctrn

Quote:
Even though most manufacturers won't recommend a primer beneath an acrylic floor enamel, your case may be the exception. Once the dust is removed by vacuum, I'd immediately apply an application of the same products I mentioned earlier and I especially like that Richard's product. Applying this type of sealer will seal the concrete + bind in any dust that wasn't removed by vacuuming and still provide a great foundation for a new application of acrylic floor paint. You can even mix the sealer and paint together (50/50) if you want the color to go a little deeper into the concrete, although doing this will probably still require a second coat of acrylic, full-bodied be applied.
Sounds straight forward. I don't mind doing a second coat, I'm used to doing two coats on everything anyways.

Quote:
If, for whatever reason, you opted to mop the floor with a detergent anyway, I'd rinse the floor by applying clean water through a pump-up garden sprayer, or just splash clean water onto the surface via a plastic sprinkling pail, then broom sweep or squeegee any excess to the sump pit or floor drain.
If I don't have to, I don't want to (complicate things). New construction and no grease or oil stains.

Quote:
Again, none of these procedures we've discussed will create any abnormal, constant or extreme maintenance issues...but what a difference it will make in terms of dust control, subsequent cleanability (I think that's a word) and aesthetics.
Exactly what I'm looking for.


Wow, so I lost power yesterday morning after the ice storm in the middle of this reply. Fired up the computer today after getting power back, and it kept my reply...amazing!
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:58 PM   #19
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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Now, instead of attempting to remove the concrete hardeners by acid etching, I suggest applying a single application of an acrylic masonry sealer designed for app over sealed surfaces (UGL and Seal Krete both make one and are available from any independent paint dealer...Richards Paint makes a really good one called "Floor-Tite" and you have several Richards Paint dealers in your area)...These sealers are made with "nano-tech" modified epoxy/acrylic resins that allow for penetration into "sealed" surfaces and provide a foundation for exceptional adhesion of acrylic finish coats of paint...
Nearest place to get Richards is ~50 miles away from York, PA according to their distributor/dealer maps.

Does S-W Porch & Floor enamel dry to a shiny slick surface like my epoxy floor did? I would like something in more of a matte finish and not slick/slippery, if possible.

UGL and Seal Krete I can both get locally. Which SPECIFIC product whould you recommend (they have many), and which would you recommend over the other? I'm assuming Seal Krete Lock Down http://www.seal-krete.com/basements-...lock-down.aspx. Lock Down says not for use below grade though...http://www.seal-krete.com/media/3113...own_100812.pdf

Still trying to figure out UGL's specific product.

What can you tell me about S-W Loxon Conditioner?
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home...tion-products/

Last edited by Dave88LX; 02-16-2014 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:55 PM   #20
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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Does S-W Porch & Floor enamel dry to a shiny slick surface like my epoxy floor did? I would like something in more of a matte finish and not slick/slippery, if possible./[/url]


It comes in low-lustre latex.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:36 PM   #21
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


I just picked up the S-W Floor and Porch Enamel. "He" said it's self-etching & priming, but I trust you guys who paint every day. Still need to find the right primer.

Would you suggest adding that Shark Bite anti-slip to it or is it OK as is?
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:37 PM   #22
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


I don't know about the self etching part, but I know I've never primed a concrete floor before applying Porch and Floor. No need for Shark Bite unless you want more grip on your floor than what comes with the P & F enamel. I've used P & F enamel on concrete gym floors and it provides great traction for basketball, volleyball, etc. The low-lustre will be perfect, IMO.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:11 PM   #23
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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I don't know about the self etching part, but I know I've never primed a concrete floor before applying Porch and Floor. No need for Shark Bite unless you want more grip on your floor than what comes with the P & F enamel. I've used P & F enamel on concrete gym floors and it provides great traction for basketball, volleyball, etc. The low-lustre will be perfect, IMO.
I probably misspoke then. He may have said just self priming, but said I do not require a separate primer. Not to go against Ric's advice, but if I can do this without a separate primer then I will go that route with 2 coats. If this were long term permanent, I would go more in depth, but after having only 6 kids in my house playing, finishing my basement moved WAY up in my priority list! Haha

From your description, it will do exactly what I want it to.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:33 PM   #24
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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I probably misspoke then. He may have said just self priming, but said I do not require a separate primer. Not to go against Ric's advice, but if I can do this without a separate primer then I will go that route with 2 coats. If this were long term permanent, I would go more in depth, but after having only 6 kids in my house playing, finishing my basement moved WAY up in my priority list! Haha

From your description, it will do exactly what I want it to.
Hey Dave..

The product from UGL is called Latex Bonding Sealer - and I kinda like the Epoxy Seal from Seal Krete. I didn't mean to recommend the Richards Product as a the best system, but it is pretty good. Actually the UGL product (as well as the Loxon Conditioner) kinda read the same way as does the Richards product...

The reasons I'd recommend any of these sealers is at least 2-fold...(1) If there were a sealer on your floor (which sounds minimal at most given the result of your water test) these products are capable of penetrating the slick surface of a sealed concrete allowing for better adhesion from a subsequent finish coat (especially an acrylic product)...Also, each of these products indicate their ability to balance the ph level on an alkaline concrete surface which could result in an incompatibility to an alkyd product..

...and (2) If there were no sealer on the floor - any of these primers would be far more able to bind any loose dust (very typical on un-sealed concrete floors) that will absolutely & adversely affect an acrylic coating's (or any waterborne product for that matter) ability to adhere tightly and properly...as dusty surfaces are probably an acrylics biggest stumbling block to a successful paint job.

I agree with you that a matte or satin finish might be the better finish for your basement - and SW's system of 1 coat Loxon Conditioner then 1 or 2 coats of SW Porch & Floor enamel would be as good a system as any. Good luck.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:45 PM   #25
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


OK I got a 5-gallon pail of Loxon Conditioner. Vac'ing and prepping the floor, hopefully get the Loxon Conditioner down this evening.

Question is about roller covers:

Loxon Conditioner:
Use a 3/8" to 3/4" nap synthetic cover

Porch & Floor Enamel:
Use a 3/8 to 3/4" Soft Woven cover

Which rollers should I be looking for? I have a pair of 1/2" White Doves ("Woven Dralon Fabric") left over if those will work, but I can get whatever's necessary.

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Old 02-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #26
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


1/2" for both is what I would use.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:02 PM   #27
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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Originally Posted by Dave88LX View Post
OK I got a 5-gallon pail of Loxon Conditioner. Vac'ing and prepping the floor, hopefully get the Loxon Conditioner down this evening.

Question is about roller covers:

Loxon Conditioner:
Use a 3/8" to 3/4" nap synthetic cover

Porch & Floor Enamel:
Use a 3/8 to 3/4" Soft Woven cover

Which rollers should I be looking for? I have a pair of 1/2" White Doves ("Woven Dralon Fabric") left over if those will work, but I can get whatever's necessary.
Sherwin Williams Loxon Conditioner is not intended to be used on walking surfaces. It's for vertical surfaces. You don't need a conditioner on the floor prior to applying the porch and floor paint. Just follow manufacture specs on the label.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:35 PM   #28
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


Man...I hate getting conflicting opinions from painters.... I will continue to clean and vacuum until we get this sorted out. OK reviewing my thread to see where everything stands:

Ric said to use a the sealer & paint, and Gymschu, Startingover and ToolSeeker 'thanked' him...I'm assuming in agreement.

Gymschu & housepaintingny say no need for a primer/conditioner.

S-W says no primer/conditioner.

I believe what Ric is saying though and it makes sense. housepaintingny, what happens if that conditioner is used on a floor?

Last edited by Dave88LX; 02-21-2014 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:01 PM   #29
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


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Man...I hate getting conflicting opinions from painters.... I will continue to clean and vacuum until we get this sorted out. OK reviewing my thread to see where everything stands:

Ric said to use a the sealer & paint, and Gymschu, Startingover and ToolSeeker 'thanked' him...I'm assuming in agreement.

Gymschu & housepaintingny say no need for a primer/conditioner.

S-W says no primer/conditioner.

I believe what Ric is saying though and it makes sense. housepaintingny, what happens if that conditioner is used on a floor?
I don't have the answer as to what exactly will happen. I just know that the sw conditioner is for vertical surfaces. I don't personally see a need for a primer or conditioner prior to applying the porch and floor Enamel. We use sw products all the time. On concrete floors we would either use shercrete, porch and floor Enamel, treadplex, h&c masonry stain or an epoxy depending on the situation. Those are all sw products. We have never applied a conditioner or primer under a floor coating on a horizontal surface, as we have never had a need to and with most products spec not to. We have never had our coatings fail on a horizontal masonry surface, as long as you follow manufacture specs and prep correctly.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:27 PM   #30
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Paint concrete floor to eliminate dusting (not epoxy)


The Seal Krete variety of this type product is also specced for vertical surfaces, but if you read all the literature it says that it can be used as a primer on horizontal surfaces.

I don't see that stated anywhere on the Loxon conditioner TDS, but it doesn't expressly forbid horizontal application either.

Knowing how much these types of products improve the integrity of acrylic coatings applied to vertical surfaces, I would not hesitate to use them on a floor if it was allowed by the manufacturer.

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