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Old 11-10-2008, 10:25 AM   #1
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


I am painting a floor which has a coat of something on it which I am not sure if it is Latex or Oil based. I have decided to paint Bulls Eye 123 over it and then paint on top of that.

My question is: Can I cover Bulls Eye 123 with an oil based enamel? I am thinking an oil based enamel may hold up better than a latex.

2nd Question: Is there a durable latex enamel paint that would be good for a floor or is it better to go with oil? I prefer to stick with all latex products because of odor and clean up.

Thanks in advance for feedback. Much appreciated.

Dennis

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Old 11-10-2008, 04:12 PM   #2
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


With the proper prep, you could coat with Ben Moore's Latex Floor & Patio (w/o primer)
Also true of the alkyd/oil version

Technically, the latex Porch & Floors are ever so slightly less durable that their oil-based counterparts

Either way, I would not use 1-2-3 in this instance
If you must prime over oil/unknown, an alkyd/oil rated for foot traffic would be the proper choice

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Old 11-11-2008, 05:58 AM   #3
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


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Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Technically, the latex Porch & Floors are ever so slightly less durable that their oil-based counterparts
Not anymore. I was talking with my P&L rep yesterday about this. He informed me that all the oil floor paints from Sherwin companies have had so much urethane removed for VOC that they don't perform any better than the acrylics now. VOC regulation is hitting my area first quarter of next year and no more oil here. The EPA has picked this stuff up and it's going nationwide very soon. Say goodbye to oil.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:08 AM   #4
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


Although the reps have been saying that 'company line' for a few years now (waterbased coatings are just as good), there is truth to the fact that the WBs are much better than they were, and the oils are despec'd for VOC regs to the point where they are not nearly as good as they were

I would not merely take any salesman's word on that, I have found it to be true in reality

Technically, though, I have found the oils to still maintain a slight edge in hardness and durability vs. their WB counterparts
However, oils do have their own issues so it's not just as Cut and Dry as people would like
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:44 AM   #5
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


Thanks for the feedback!
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:22 PM   #6
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


Densec:

I would try to buy a "polyurethane" floor paint from any of your local paint stores before putting the Bullseye 123 on. It's very likely that the polyurethane (or any alkyd paint) would stick to your existing floor well without the need for a latex primer.

Polyurethane resins are nothing more than modified alkyd resins. So, you can use a polyurethane paint EXACTLY like an oil based paint, and they clean up just the same with paint thinner too. They just dry to a harder film than an alkyd paint will, and that makes for a longer lasting better looking floor.

My experience with Latex Porch & Floor "Enamels" was a complete and utter disappointment, but it was also more than 10 years ago.

I have nothing but good things to say about polyurethane floor paints as they stand up very well. I believe that paint companies are telling people that oil based coatings are being phased out because water based coatings offer better performance. I suspect this is propoganda, and it's being spread because the paint companies know that they'll be forced to stop making oil based coatings anyhow.

So, they want to get people buying water based coatings instead of getting people to start hoarding the remaining oil based coatings that may yet still be made.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 11-11-2008 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:59 AM   #7
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


I don't trust any sales rep completely. In this case, I'm starting to believe him. I can't say for sure how well P&L's Acrylic product works. I've never used it. We've sold a fair bit and haven't had any complaints on scuffing at all. But I believe the oils are getting too soft to provide much benefit. The county schools here use to buy Duron Dura Clad from me for all their doors and frames. This is urethane fortified enamel. For the past couple of years they've had issues with it chipping off the frames weeks after it's been applied. I recently switched them to an acylic DTM. No chipping at all now. On samples of some Duraclad I still have, the paint takes a very long time to cure completely and it's still easily scratched with a fingernail after a couple of weeks.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:26 PM   #8
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


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Originally Posted by poppameth View Post
I don't trust any sales rep completely. In this case, I'm starting to believe him. I can't say for sure how well P&L's Acrylic product works. I've never used it. We've sold a fair bit and haven't had any complaints on scuffing at all. But I believe the oils are getting too soft to provide much benefit. The county schools here use to buy Duron Dura Clad from me for all their doors and frames. This is urethane fortified enamel. For the past couple of years they've had issues with it chipping off the frames weeks after it's been applied. I recently switched them to an acylic DTM. No chipping at all now. On samples of some Duraclad I still have, the paint takes a very long time to cure completely and it's still easily scratched with a fingernail after a couple of weeks.
The chipping problem sounds to me like someone at the county schools is painting a hard drying paint like your Dura Clad over a soft drying paint like a latex paint. The hard paint is breaking off in chips because the soft latex paint under it breaks much more easily than it does. Putting one latex over another will definitely stop the chipping as both layers are soft enough that they'll just get scratched off scuffed off instead of the Dura Clad standing up to the impact but the underlying latex breaking. I'm wondering if, in their wisdom, the custodians at the school board have started using LATEX primers on their door frames, whereas they used to use alkyd primers. THAT would definitely explain the sudden chipping problem.

Putting less thinner (VOC's) into an oil based coating like a urethane modified alkyd isn't going to result in it drying to a softer film. But, it will result in it being more viscous, and that will prevent it from spreading and self levelling properly (or as it normally would if it were thinned normally). That increased viscosity and reduced self leveling would result in people applying a thicker coat of paint, and that additional thickness would definitely result in it taking longer to dry and remaining softer for longer until it dried.

If it wuz me, I would try thinning some Dura Clad with paint thinner (despite the warning on the can saying "Do not thin.")

The easiest and most foolproof way for a paint manufacturer to have less VOC's come out of his paint as it dries is to put less VOC's in it to begin with. That allows the manufacturer to be allowed to sell his paint, but it results in less than optimal performance in the paint.

(I'd also ask the schools whether they've started using latex primers before top coating with Dura Clad. The average person's sum total knowledge of paint consists of knowing that you clean up latex paint with water and oil based paint with paint thinner, and most custodians know precious little more than that.)

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 11-12-2008 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:54 AM   #9
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Oil Paint over Latex Primer


The frames have never had anything but oil on them. These are the same painters that have been doing them for the past 20 years. They don't switch products unless they talk it over with me first to make sure they are doing it the right way. They used nothing but Dura Clad on these since the doors were put in. Only within the last couple of years have they had problems with the product staying soft. They aren't the only ones to complain on these products either.

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