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Old 11-30-2006, 07:59 PM   #1
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Newbie here and need advice...


I just bought a large condo and unfortunately the previous owner was some kind of artist and thus the walls and celings are painted all types of colors I do not like.

Nonetheless, I want to go from a blue celing to a basic white, not too bright. I also want to go from a pinkish/red wall to a light shade of green.

Questions for those with more knowledge than myself:

1. Do I need a primer before I apply the paint or can I just go with 2 coats of paint? I presume primer would be needed.

2. What type of paint should I use? Flat, Semi-Gloss, recommended brands?

3. What kind of paint should I used in a kitchen area. It is a galley style kitchen so there is really only one wall? I want to go from a gold-type color to a shade of yellow. Should I use a primer there as well?

Thank you in advance for any responses.

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Old 11-30-2006, 09:23 PM   #2
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Whenever you are trying to cover bright or deep colors with a lighter color,you will get better results if you prime first. Except in damp areas, we always try to stay with flat on the ceilings, because it shows much fewer imperfections in the drywall than any type of sheen.Some people still prefer the look of flat on walls, but we try to recommend "eggshell" or " low luster" which is just a hint of sheen, and much easier to clean than flat. Semi-gloss is the next step up, but is too shiny for walls for my taste.Use it for trim. We use Benjamin Moore exclusively if our choice, but there is nothing wrong with Sherwin Williams either. The Sherwin sheens are a little shinnier in my opinion, so their semi-gloss is close to most other brands gloss.The mid priced grades of wall paint from both are very good, but stay away from absolute bottom grades; and pay the extra few dollars for the top grade in trim paint. Use "oil" , actually alkyd base for trim. Latex paint on interior trim should be punishable by 15 to 20 years in solitary confinement in my opinion.As important as the paint is the tools, no cheap brushes and roller covers. And stay away from the In house brands from the big box retailers.


Last edited by troubleseeker; 11-30-2006 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 02:09 AM   #3
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If the ceiling is light blue, you can paint it a couple times with standard ceiling paint. Make sure it is designated as ceiling paint, not just flat white paint. White actually has blue in it, so light blue should cover the same as a primer and then paint. Flat of course.

The pink/red: safest to prime that with a gray primer, if not, at least prime it first. Flat, satin or eggshell finish is suggested. Flat would be the best if you don't paint very much.

Only one wall in the kitchen? I take it that under the cabs and backsplash are tiled then?

For the kitchen, prime for adhesion. An enamel kitchen paint should be fine, make sure that the term "scrubbable" is included. Not super washable, or very washable, but scrubbable. An exception is if you use sherwin/williams duration interior paint. Color accents is a favorite. Superpaint is also good. All sherwin/williams products.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fp1 View Post
1. Do I need a primer before I apply the paint or can I just go with 2 coats of paint? I presume primer would be needed.
Normally no primer is needed for re-paint
However, with your color changes I'd recommend it
Quote:
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2. What type of paint should I use? Flat, Semi-Gloss, recommended brands?
The sheen is up to you, it's a personal thing
Off-hand I'd suggest flat...or eggshell if you want a little sheen
The premium lines from Ben Moore, Sherwin Williams, and Pittsburgh are all good, just stay away from their "contractor" or "builder" grade
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3. What kind of paint should I used in a kitchen area. It is a galley style kitchen so there is really only one wall? I want to go from a gold-type color to a shade of yellow. Should I use a primer there as well?
A Kitchen and Bath paint is a good idea here, but not an absolute
I'd recommend it off-hand
Zinsser's Perma-White can be tinted to light colors and would need no primer
BM's Moore's K&B is another good one
It might need primer if the surface is questionable (in bad shape, really dirty and neeing lots of cleaning, in a high use/traffic area of the kitchen)
Both are "eggshell" but Z's PW is flatter than M's K&B
I'm sure the SW K&B product is good also
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Old 12-01-2006, 08:09 AM   #5
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Only one wall in the kitchen? I take it that under the cabs and backsplash are tiled then?
Yes, that is exactly the situation.

Perhaps a few more dumb questions, but here goes anyway.

Can you tint the kitchen/bath paints?

Should I also use a kitchen/bath paint for the bathroom walls as well?

Throughout the condo, the heating is the typical electric baseboard type made of steel or whatever. As you might have guessed, the previous owner painted the steel baseboard the same color as that of the wall. Personally, I think it looks awful.

Therefore, should I paint the electric baseboard white? I think that would look the best. If so, should I use an oil based semi-gloss on the metal? Fwiw, the floors are a 12inch square terra cotta (for visualizing purposes).

What are the costs associated with the paint on a per gallon basis? $25-30? Price isn't really an issue but I don't want to overpay. I anticipate driving out to Jersey or Brooklyn to find a SW or Ben Moore Store. The condo is in NYC.

Lastly, I assume Purdy is okay for some brushes. What kind of rollers would be ideal?

Again, thank you so much for all your help.
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Old 12-01-2006, 03:17 PM   #6
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Kitchen/bath paint can be tinted. If you go to sherwin/williams they will tint for you. I mention s/w because that's what I"m familiar with, nothing wrong with BM either.

Yes, same paint for bath. You may get stuck with a whole gal. for the kit. wall and use the rest for a bath.

It's difficult to know what was used on the baseboard heaters, when they have'nt been repainted, I like to use cans of spray paint on them. Problem is, if they've been painted with latex, you don't want to go over them with oil. So...the safest thing to do is paint them with latex, any color you want.

Without an account, you'll pay something in the 30 dollar range for superpaint and bath paint. Duration is in the 50 dollar range and color accents, I don't know. I haven't seen retail on it.

For your application, a one time homeowner job, I won't recommend the best rollers. When you get to the store, you will see them on display. I will recommend nap length though, 1/2 for the flat and satin/eggshell.
3/8 for the kitchen and bath. 50/50 rollers should be excellent for you if you plan to save them. otherwise get less expensive rollers, wrap masking tape around them to remove excess fibers and have at it.
Purdy are top of the line brushes. And not cheap at retail level. You will need to cut a straight line at the top of the walls at the ceiling, so an angles sash brush will be needed. For a homowner, I'd recommend a 2" "bluebristle" to do it with. Everything else, s/w contractor brushes will be fine, or you can just use the 2" throughout. However, you might want at least two brushes so you can go back and forth from wall to ceiling color to make the line straight.

Last edited by joewho; 12-01-2006 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fp1 View Post
Perhaps a few more dumb questions, but here goes anyway.
If that's one of the questions, then no
None of the questions are dumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by fp1 View Post
Can you tint the kitchen/bath paints?
Yup
Quote:
Originally Posted by fp1 View Post
Should I also use a kitchen/bath paint for the bathroom walls as well?
You don't have to, but it's a good idea
Quote:
Originally Posted by fp1 View Post
...the heating is the typical electric baseboard type made of steel or whatever....
Therefore, should I paint the electric baseboard white? I think that would look the best. If so, should I use an oil based semi-gloss on the metal?...
Normally yeah
On never painted ones I'd recommend an oil enamel
But not on yours
It's about a 98.6% chance that it just wall paint on there now
Unless there's something suggesting oil on there now, you can simply coat with a latex of your choice
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What are the costs associated with the paint on a per gallon basis? $25-30?... I anticipate driving out to Jersey or Brooklyn to find a SW or Ben Moore Store.
They can vary greatly
I'd expect to pay about $25-$35 for the good stuff
Out here SW is a bit more than BM, but in some areas that's reversed
SW Duration and Color Accents are over 40 bucks (the D's over 50 out here)

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Lastly, I assume Purdy is okay for some brushes. What kind of rollers would be ideal?
Purdy or Corona brushes should be fine
A 2.5" sash brush (angle) or two make great workhorses
If you've got some tiny spaces or delicate work, maybe a 1" would be helpful (if you've got window or door muntins- those grate thingies-then a little one will be helpful)

I don't care for the metal cage rollers, I'd recommend a Wooster Sherlock
IMO much smoother application with less effort

For the sleeves or covers, I'd recommend the 50/50 Wool/Poly
Or at least the Purdy White Doves

A quality cage (frame) and roller sleeves, along with good brushes and quality paints will make the project easier, faster, and make it look better
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:09 PM   #8
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Guys,

Thank You so much for your advice and suggestions. I'll be sure to post some before and afters.
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:51 AM   #9
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Sorry, another question for those in the know.

Should I cut in the corners/ceiling and around the windows before I roll at all? Or should I do it wall by wall? Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:07 PM   #10
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Do the painting wall by wall if you are using any kind of sheen. Cut the wall in and roll it out immediately. Roll as close to trim and ceilings as possible without touching them to prevent banding.

As for the baseboard heaters or whatever....you can pick up a little bit of denatured alcohol to do a test on them. Wear some latex gloves, dip a rag in the denatured and rub the painted surface. If it picks up the color after a couple rubs, it's latex. If not, it's a solvent based product.

On the color change bit. If you decide to go with the Duration you will be quite surprised by the coverage...I usually don't have to use a primer when doing two coats on interior surfaces for color changes with this product unless it is going from a very dark color to a very light color.

Also, if you decide to use the duration you can go for the matte finish which is almost flat but still washable.
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Old 12-04-2006, 04:51 PM   #11
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Hi guys,

A few more questions, if you don't mind, mostly on what specific type of paint(s) I need. I'm heading to the paint store this week/end.

I will probably need to prime every wall and ceiling but for the bedroom. Fwiw, the paint on the heating baseboard elements is indeed latex.

So my questions:

1. What specific brand of primer should I use for the ceilings and the wall? Is one primer suitable for every room?

I feel more comfortable using a primer in the living room area (going from the pink/red to a light green (eggshell most likely)). In addition, the ceiling is not a 'light' blue, but rather more like a Ben Moore Blue Lapis (2067-40). Should I get the primer tinted gray or should I just go with a white primer? Can the gray tinted primer be used for both the walls and ceiling? The ceiling color will probably be Ben Moore Cloud White (OC-130) flat. I guess I am confused because there are so many types of paints. To help out, I am going to go with Benjamin Moore exclusively unless another primer is better, more cost effective.

2. Should I just paint the baseboard heating elements the same color as the ceiling? I think that would look the best but would be open to any suggestions at what might look better.

3. How long should I wait after I apply the primer. I anticipate putting on the primer during a weeknight or 2 or 3 and then applying the topcoats on the weekend? How long between topcoats should I wait? Obviously, I'll be using latex.

4. Should I paint the trim and window trim? It is a nice stained wood with probably urethane on it. I really don't have the heart to paint over real wood trim. It isn't that cheap type trim you would find in say my rental. (I probably answered my own question).

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to do this right....the first time. Thanks for all your help, it has been beyond helpful.
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Old 12-04-2006, 05:22 PM   #12
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1. I'm not an expert on BM products, but the Frest Start Primer should suit your purposes, without spending unnecessary cash. All you're doing is sealing out the old color. The gray tint is a helper for covering red, it isn't necessary for the blue, but certainly can be used over any color.

2. Is your base trim also natural wood? The baseboard heaters could be painted the trim color, white, or the ceiling color. The ceiling color isn't a bad idea, but ceiling paint is flat, and the BB heaters should be a semi-gloss. It's your discretion what color to paint them.

3. Ceiling primer can be painted over the same day, as long as it's dry.
Wall primer, same. Paint coatings should be allowed to dry according to the label instructions, sand between coats. At any rate, you will be able to lay the coats on sooner than the timeline you describe.

4. NO.

You might look to see if any caulk is necessary where the mouldings meet the walls, if not, just tape them to get a nice straight line when you paint.

Don't be sorry for the questions. They are easy ones.
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Old 12-04-2006, 05:57 PM   #13
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Thanks Joe.

2. The baseboard trim is natural wood as well, except in the bedroom which I think is the typical white painted trim. I'll probably just pick up a gallon of semi-gloss and do the baseboard heating units as well.

3. When sanding, what type of sandpaper do I use? Do I sand after the primer coat? Then after the first topcoat layer as well? I presume I also sand the ceilings as well? Clean up the dust with a shop-vac type unit?
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Old 12-04-2006, 07:28 PM   #14
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The trick is to keep your paint clean to avoid sanding. We don't typically sand any ceilings, unless there is "sediment" or any other foriegn material you can see. Not a big worry.

I suggest sanding the walls because you are taking the time and effort to do a very nice job. 150 grit should be good for you. Sanding after the primer and all subsequent coats, using light pressure will yield a nice smooth surface. If you do sand the primer, do it lightly, you just want to make it smooth to the touch.

Another option is to sand just before the final coat, using a little more pressure.

EDIT: There won't be much dust to clean up, whatever does come off the wall will fall onto the tape you have on the base trim, I use an old paint brush to "dust" it off. Do the same to the top of door and window frames.

Last edited by joewho; 12-04-2006 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 12-04-2006, 10:22 PM   #15
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3. When sanding, what type of sandpaper do I use? Do I sand after the primer coat? Then after the first topcoat layer as well? I presume I also sand the ceilings as well? Clean up the dust with a shop-vac type unit?
Sand first, then prime/paint
For the walls I'd recommend a sanding screen, sometimes called a drywallers screen, on a pole
A "fine" or 180/220 grit will be just right
For trim I'd recommend a sanding sponge, again "fine" or "med/fine"
You'll just be scuff sanding to rough up the surface a bit, not sanding off the finish
The sanding screen on a pole will make quick work of that on the walls, the sponges work well on trim

No ceiling sanding (unless there's something real wrong with them)

Clean the dust with a Swiffer on a stick thingie
The dry Swiffers, not the "mop" type
Best tool for painters since the invention of the roller
Shop vacs don't get nearly enough dust up

If you'd like to sand between coats, it would be a very light sanding, and remember to Swiffer

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