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Old 01-03-2013, 09:48 AM   #16
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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Sorry Jeff- I do not agree.
A sheened paint, to get full coverage, not just of color but of a sealed enough surface to come to full sheen, takes 3 coats.
It does not always. And my eyes are good.

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You can use all paint, but it is a waste- primer does it better and cheaper.
Sometimes, sometimes not. Reread my math and tell me specifically what part you disagree with.

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And Primer and one coat, even with aura is a bad idea. Seldom works.
I'd like to know your definition of "works" and "seldom". In my experience, it "often" "works". By my definition, that means in most typical modern, pastel-type colors, and covering other pastel-type colors, in flat, it "works" because the wall looks good and has solid color with no bleed-through. Good quality paints have enough titanium dioxide and other solids in them in the white-base colors that this simply works often enough.

Now, maybe we should talk about "good quality" paint, and coverage. I should say I don't get 400 sf of coverage when I apply the paint. Maybe I should have said that, but it's just something I assume when going for 1 coat - I'm looking at around 325 sf of coverage, which according to the manufacturers is a generous coat. Sherwin Williams claims for SuperPaint 1.6 mils thickness. Now I'm not sure at what coverage that is exactly because they specify 350-400. If we assume some people spread this paint at 400 sf and manage to get 1.6 mils thickness, then when dropping to 325 you're looking at about a 23% increase in paint thickness, so I'm looking closer to 2 mils. That can be a huge difference especially when comparing apples to oranges.

Let's say a contractor is putting on 2 coats of a builder grade paint, like ProMar 700 or Property Solution. Now you are looking at 1.1 mils at Sherwin Williams specs. Since they know they have that second coat coming, they are not afraid to press on that roller to spread the paint, or they get a bit lazy with either coat and press too light. Let's call it 1 mil under these conditions. So now you are literally looking at the difference being only 1 coat as I do it, and 2 coats as some other contractor would do it. Yes, they might actually be the same thickness of paint.

And guess what? Aura is actually 2 mils as spec'ed. A "generous" application can actually be thicker than 2 coats of cheaper stuff. In other words, pretty much what the manufacturer advertises.

So let's be careful when we talk about some people using 2 coats and other people using 1 coat. We need to get down to details, and we do the DIY community a disservice if we speak in vague terms like "1 coat" or "2 coats". Sometimes the difference between 1 and 2 coats is just labor.

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Old 01-03-2013, 10:13 AM   #17
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New drywall - so many primer choices


Go put your specs on the pro board. Someone made some claims like that and there is so much experience there it is going to get qualified quite well.
I live in the land of flat walls, and I like a very subtle stipple. To heap it on and have heavy stipple does not look good at all to me- cheapens the job.

If it works for you- fine.
It hasn't for me. One coat over one primer will always be less than. And that is if your technique is perfect. Any light spot and your sunk.

And because this is the DIY board, to tell them to cut a corner because it might look good enough is the wrong message.
IMO, of course.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:09 AM   #18
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New drywall - so many primer choices


I feel bad for the OP here.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:03 PM   #19
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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I live in the land of flat walls, and I like a very subtle stipple. To heap it on and have heavy stipple does not look good at all to me- cheapens the job.
I think you're exaggerating what I said. "Generous" and "heaping it on" aren't the same.

BM Aura specs 2.0 mils at recommended coverage.

I'm not using 1/2" nap, I'm using Purdy White Dove in 3/8" to get that coverage, so it is smooth. Thicker coat does not necessarily mean heavy stipple.

Today's quality paints are thick enough that 325 sf coverage is not a problem. But as I said, recommended coverage alone starts at 1.6 mils for SuperPaint and 2.0 mils for Aura. This blows away the approximate 1.0 mils of cheaper paints, so the point is to compare apples to apples, and I don't see much of that happening, do you?
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #20
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New drywall - so many primer choices


Drywall primers provide an even porosity to the surface so that your eggshell will have an even sheen throughout. If a painter just thins the wall paint he is spreading the solids too thin, raising the fuzz on the face paper creating an overall mess. I agree - find a better painter.

I agree with a previous post, use an eggshell sheen on the bath ceiling. Using a flat will create water spotting, perhaps bubbling and peeling,
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:54 PM   #21
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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Now I'm even more confused than before.. help! I talked to the painting contractor tonight and told him that I wanted a coat of drywall primer throughout. He said, "You don't need primer... it's just watered down flat paint. Just paint the whole room - ceilings and walls - with flat paint and then put color on the walls. Primer is just a waste of money."

So who is right? I bought a 5'er of SW Drywall Primer and my painter says its totally unnecessary. What do I do??

Help. Please!!

Mark
Do yourself a favor and prime the drywall.Whether you use a flat-satin or eggshell finish paint the sheen will be more uniform and and your finish will be smoother.Also use 2 coats of finish paint you will be glad you did.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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Do yourself a favor and prime the drywall.Whether you use a flat-satin or eggshell finish paint the sheen will be more uniform and and your finish will be smoother.Also use 2 coats of finish paint you will be glad you did.
FYI, with 2 coats of flat finish paint - you will definitely not notice a sheen difference with primer or without. Unless perhaps you're using crappy paint.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:03 PM   #23
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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If a painter just thins the wall paint he is spreading the solids too thin, raising the fuzz on the face paper creating an overall mess. I agree - find a better painter.
The painter did not say he was going to thin any paint. The painter claimed that primer was basically watered down finish paint. (Primer is normally going to be thinner than a high solids finish paint, but still this is a pretty silly thing to say.)
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:41 PM   #24
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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FYI, with 2 coats of flat finish paint - you will definitely not notice a sheen difference with primer or without. Unless perhaps you're using crappy paint.
In certain light,a flat will flash when touched up if the walls are not primed no matter what grade paint you use.I have seen it for the last 25+ years.FYI
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:14 PM   #25
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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In certain light,a flat will flash when touched up if the walls are not primed no matter what grade paint you use.I have seen it for the last 25+ years.FYI
Yes, but touch up is different from 2 full coats.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:27 AM   #26
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New drywall - so many primer choices


I think part of the problem here Jeff, beyond mils, is that you're bucking the consensus here. This is a primer plus two kind of site, we're old fashioned that way. Brushjockey and Chrisn are correct to say that your argument is better suited for a pro site, no offense. We're here to counsel DIY's on best practices, those that will give the least chance of trouble while providing the best possible outcome. From the SW site that you encouraged me to check, the Super Paint TDS;
Drywall
Self-prime using 2 cts. of SuperPaint
Interior Latex Flat
or
1 ct. Premium Wall & Wood Primer

2 cts. SuperPaint Interior Latex Flat,

That "or" tells me one thing, they're happier with one plus two, it's a better best type of recommendation. The discussion of finish as a base and paint and primer in one has been debated here till the cows came home, and left, and came home again. As pros we operate in different ways, with different job needs and under different budgets. But here we have to come to a consensus in our approach to the DIY's who seek our help. We can't be debating basic questions, to them that is, and confusing them with numbers and viewpoints that might stimulate a pro but have little bearing on people who just want to know what primer to use on their drywall. And to people who sometimes think any paint is paint, you're advice could easily be taken as a green light to use any finish as a base. They don't always make distinctions like we do, and that could get them in trouble. It's pretty simple really.


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Old 01-04-2013, 07:37 AM   #27
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New drywall - so many primer choices


OK if you read back the whole thread not 1 person agrees with you, well over 100 years of experience says your wrong. What I don't understand is the point. You are going to take a paint slop it on twice as thick as recommended, not worrying about runs, sags, drips, and splatter. Then you compare this to Aura because it is formulated to be 2 mils thick. Now that you are putting this on so thick I think you need to refigure your savings. By admission you say this will work with most typical colors- primer will work with all colors. Even if your figures in the beginning hold up, your doing all this, taking a chance of a bad job and all to save as you said $15 in primer. There is a reason painters contract for primer and 2 coats-because that is what works. We would't make any more money doing it our way so why is everyone so against your way. Because it MAY work most of the time but will not work the rest of the time and who wants to take that chance. All I can say is if this works for you keep doing it, but I guarantee it will come back and bite you in the arse.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:53 AM   #28
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New drywall - so many primer choices


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You have got to be joking me.

How are you any different? Claiming your way is the only right way?

You hear something a little different than the same stuff you hear every day here, and you just can't handle it?

Why don't you explain exactly what about what I said is wrong? Especially with regard to thickness. I'm looking forward to hearing about it.

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Old 01-04-2013, 10:08 AM   #29
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New drywall - so many primer choices


Look Jeff:

I'm just a regular homeowner. As far away from pro as one can get. But I love this place because of the great knowledge that I am able to gain on a consistent basis.

So far this morning I've read at least 3 threads where you are coming off as a know it all trouble maker just looking to stir it up.
Sorry if you don't like what I said but I'm entitled to my point of view.
I wouldn't take your advice because of it.

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Old 01-04-2013, 02:28 PM   #30
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New drywall - so many primer choices


I am the OP. Thank you to everyone for your advice and opinions.

FWIW, I will be priming. I was hoping to get some help with all of the different primers, but I think I'll just use SW Drywall Primer. I will, however, be priming.

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