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-   -   NEW DRYWALL, new addition, Need Primer (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/new-drywall-new-addition-need-primer-122525/)

chipraynor 11-06-2011 08:26 AM

NEW DRYWALL, new addition, Need Primer
 
I've read most of these post but am still unclear on what brand to buy.

I have new drywall installed in a finished attic and 2nd floor, a skimcoat mixes the new drywall and an old plaster home. on the 1st floor i have a mix of new drywall for tray ceilings and a bump out room ect.. mixing agin with old plaster.

What is the best priemer out there for this. any help would be great.

I have used the home D, kilz pemier, in the 5 gallon, and that seems to dry so quick, but does the job on a small area i did less then a yr ago.
I've heard:
Durron
sherwin-williams
kilz

thanks,
Chip

Brushjockey 11-06-2011 08:40 AM

if you've searched and read the posts- you have had lots of info already. If not- try it.

Gymschu 11-06-2011 10:11 AM

I would just use regular drywall primer from Sherwin-Williams. If you have a glossy surface on the old plaster you may have to use a bonding type primer in those areas. Go to a real paint store like SW or Benny Moore. The professionals there will hook you up with the right product and are glad to answer any questions you may have.

chipraynor 11-06-2011 10:55 AM

Thanks Gymshu,
I plan to paint this myself.

any other tips for primering?

jeffnc 11-07-2011 11:38 AM

You don't HAVE to prime. Priming can accomplish several things, but make sure you need to accomplish those things that your cover coat can't accomplish before you pay for primer and do the labor.

For example, if you are going to apply 2 coats of decent quality flat paint over new drywall, I would probably not bother priming. The first coat of good quality flat paint is basically your primer, and you have no sheen issues.

Even with good quality eggshell paint, 2 coats right over drywall might work fine. Again, the first coat is essentially a primer.

They sell primer as saving you money, but that is not necessarily the case. Let's say you're painting a 16 x 13 bedroom with 8 foot ceilings. That's about 460 sf, so you'll need 2 gallons of paint for 1 coat. You will also need 2 gallons of primer. If the primer is $20 and the paint is $40, that will cost you $120.

Now if you want to put on 2 coats of just the paint, that will require 3 gallons at the same cost of $120. With good quality flat paint, you will be fine. In fact, in terms of color, you'll be better off because you just put on 2 coats of exactly the same color, for the best in hiding and covering. In fact, quite frankly, you can often put a good quality flat paint right over drywall in 1 coat and have it come out fine (my experience is mostly with SW SuperPaint in this regard). The paint manufacturers do not want you to consider this, of course. Today's high quality paints are better than old ones - and you can apply them generously if you like since they are thicker. You can roll a gallon to 320 sf, for example, instead of 350-400 sf.

When different areas of drywall (paper, joint compound, etc) have different porosities, you usually want to correct that first. This is more an issue with putting on eggshell or satin paint with the finish coat (I count Aura and Duration as eggshell - matte does not mean flat in this case.) For these and other cases, you really need a drywall sealer (the sealing part being more important than the "priming" part, depending on how you translate the meanings on primer labels.) And again, a coat of the actual paint might be able to act as that sealer.

Of course there are texture issues as well. This is especially true when a thin coat is sprayed on (even in flat paint). If you can see through to the texture difference between the drywall paper and the taped and mudded seams, it has not been done right and you can tell a primer (or even a base coat of finish paint) has not been used.

Gymschu 11-07-2011 03:33 PM

Jeff, I beg to differ about primer. In my 35 years of painting, I have seen many paint failures that were a result of NOT PRIMING new drywall. I have seen builder's flat paint used as a primer and finish coat and after several years, any time someone bumps into the wall, a ding/chunk came off the wall. I'm not saying it can't be done that way, but, over the course of a lifetime, why not ensure that your new drywall is properly sealed with a coat of primer. Most new homes require anywhere from 20-50 gallons of primer.......yes, it can add up, but over the long haul, that may be the best money you ever spend for the paint in your house.

chipraynor 11-07-2011 03:58 PM

Great, thanks for the info. I am using this kilz premier primer in the attic then sw or durron build up primer in the rest of the house. Any helpful info please keep posting!

chrisn 11-07-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymschu (Post 765900)
Jeff, I beg to differ about primer. In my 35 years of painting, I have seen many paint failures that were a result of NOT PRIMING new drywall. I have seen builder's flat paint used as a primer and finish coat and after several years, any time someone bumps into the wall, a ding/chunk came off the wall. I'm not saying it can't be done that way, but, over the course of a lifetime, why not ensure that your new drywall is properly sealed with a coat of primer. Most new homes require anywhere from 20-50 gallons of primer.......yes, it can add up, but over the long haul, that may be the best money you ever spend for the paint in your house.

I agree:thumbsup:

jeffnc 11-07-2011 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymschu (Post 765900)
Jeff, I beg to differ about primer. In my 35 years of painting, I have seen many paint failures that were a result of NOT PRIMING new drywall. I have seen builder's flat paint used as a primer and finish coat and after several years, any time someone bumps into the wall, a ding/chunk came off the wall.

That's not a result of not priming, that's a result of using builder's flat paint. I specifically said you would not use that quality of paint. It may also be a result of putting on the paint too thinly or by spraying it, which does not "key" the paint into the drywall paper like rolling it on with pressure. "Keying" the paint into the drywall paper fibers is similar to properly embedding tape into joint compound, or putting mortar on a metal lathe, or using rebar in concrete. They all make the final product much stronger.

So 3 things can account for those failures:
- too thin of a coat
- too low quality of a paint
- not keying the paint into the drywall

The type of painter that does those things is trying to save money and time. By definition, the type of painter that would prepare a surface properly with the proper primer is the type of painter that would not do those things anyway.

housepaintingny 11-07-2011 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 765753)
You don't HAVE to prime. Priming can accomplish several things, but make sure you need to accomplish those things that your cover coat can't accomplish before you pay for primer and do the labor.

For example, if you are going to apply 2 coats of decent quality flat paint over new drywall, I would probably not bother priming. The first coat of good quality flat paint is basically your primer, and you have no sheen issues.

Even with good quality eggshell paint, 2 coats right over drywall might work fine. Again, the first coat is essentially a primer.

They sell primer as saving you money, but that is not necessarily the case. Let's say you're painting a 16 x 13 bedroom with 8 foot ceilings. That's about 460 sf, so you'll need 2 gallons of paint for 1 coat. You will also need 2 gallons of primer. If the primer is $20 and the paint is $40, that will cost you $120.

Now if you want to put on 2 coats of just the paint, that will require 3 gallons at the same cost of $120. With good quality flat paint, you will be fine. In fact, in terms of color, you'll be better off because you just put on 2 coats of exactly the same color, for the best in hiding and covering. In fact, quite frankly, you can often put a good quality flat paint right over drywall in 1 coat and have it come out fine (my experience is mostly with SW SuperPaint in this regard). The paint manufacturers do not want you to consider this, of course. Today's high quality paints are better than old ones - and you can apply them generously if you like since they are thicker. You can roll a gallon to 320 sf, for example, instead of 350-400 sf.

When different areas of drywall (paper, joint compound, etc) have different porosities, you usually want to correct that first. This is more an issue with putting on eggshell or satin paint with the finish coat (I count Aura and Duration as eggshell - matte does not mean flat in this case.) For these and other cases, you really need a drywall sealer (the sealing part being more important than the "priming" part, depending on how you translate the meanings on primer labels.) And again, a coat of the actual paint might be able to act as that sealer.

Of course there are texture issues as well. This is especially true when a thin coat is sprayed on (even in flat paint). If you can see through to the texture difference between the drywall paper and the taped and mudded seams, it has not been done right and you can tell a primer (or even a base coat of finish paint) has not been used.

Jeff I hope your not a painter, drwaller or builder, as anyone whom does not prime new drywall is a hack. Priming of a drywall promotes adhesion, uniform color and seals the surface. I have seen to many hacks in my career whom don't prime and only use a flat as a primer which leads to paint failure and it will also take more paint to cover a un primed wall than a primed wall. A wall can be sprayed as long as its backrolled. I have never seen paint sprayed on a properly primed wall fail. Paint and primer each serve there own purpose.

jeffnc 11-07-2011 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housepaintingny (Post 766106)
I have seen to many hacks in my career whom don't prime and only use a flat as a primer which leads to paint failure and it will also take more paint to cover a un primed wall than a primed wall. A wall can be sprayed as long as its backrolled. I have never seen paint sprayed on a properly primed wall fail.

The amount of paint required is not the issue. A high quality high solids paint will not "fail" unless applied incorrectly. The type of people who skip primer are the type of people who use cheap paint and apply it incorrectly - that is why the paint fails. I don't understand the relevance of your comment about backrolling sprayed paint - I said nothing to contradict that. Again, you probably have not seen paint sprayed over primer fail because the sorts of painters that prime are also the sorts of painters that apply paint correctly and use the appropriate quality paint.

You're simply posting non sequiturs here. The fact that hacks leave bad paint jobs behind proves nothing except that they're bad painters.

housepaintingny 11-07-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 766110)
The amount of paint required is not the issue. A high quality high solids paint will not "fail" unless applied incorrectly. The type of people who skip primer are the type of people who use cheap paint and apply it incorrectly - that is why the paint fails. I don't understand the relevance of your comment about backrolling sprayed paint - I said nothing to contradict that. Again, you probably have not seen paint sprayed over primer fail because the sorts of painters that prime are also the sorts of painters that apply paint correctly and use the appropriate quality paint.

You're simply posting non sequiturs here. The fact that hacks leave bad paint jobs behind proves nothing except that they're bad painters.

The bottom line is that priming is required on bare substrates and priming is a step in the prep process before applying your paint. It does not matter if your using cheap paint or premium paint with 100% acrylic binders, if you don't prime when you should you will have a problem down the road.

Matthewt1970 11-07-2011 08:28 PM

Nothing will bond, seal and be as durable for a first coat as primer.

jeffnc 11-07-2011 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by housepaintingny (Post 766118)
The bottom line is that priming is required on bare substrates and priming is a step in the prep process before applying your paint. It does not matter if your using cheap paint or premium paint with 100% acrylic binders, if you don't prime when you should you will have a problem down the road.

Obviously if you don't prime when you "should" then you'll have problems. That's a tautology and goes without saying.

The point is under what conditions you really "should" prime. Priming is not necessarily required on "bare substrates". It depends on what's going on and what the substrate is. For example, polyurethane is applied directly to bare wood with no primer required.

Direct To Substrate paints have been around for years. Read this article by the Paint Quality Institute (over 3 years old!)
http://www.paintquality.com/paint-pr...newsletter.pdf

jeffnc 11-07-2011 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthewt1970 (Post 766133)
Nothing will bond, seal and be as durable for a first coat as primer.

This is also not really the point. For example, if you are hanging a 5x9 framed photo on your wall, a 3/8 x 5" lag screw driven into a stud will be sturdier and more durable than a picture hanger driven into only the drywall. No one would argue with that statement. But no one would argue if I said that wasn't really the point, either.


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