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Old 05-10-2014, 03:21 PM   #16
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


You use the term "toner" and I don't know if there's a technical difference between "stain" and "toner". There are different "levels" of stain, where they have different amounts of solids in them. Such as "clear", "transparent", "translucent", "semi-transparent", "semi-solid", "solid". The way I learned it was that the more solids it has in it, the less penetrative it would be, but the more UV resistant it would be. I think having some tone to it reduces UV rays to an extent, but allows maintenance coats. You seem to be saying that any solids will eventually build up, which makes sense. I'm not sure where "toner" fits in that scale.

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Old 05-10-2014, 08:51 PM   #17
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Sorry to keep this on-going, but I got a third estimate.

This guy said he would use Cabot and do the entire deck by brush - which I really liked.

But this next part concerned me after reading your responses so I'm hoping for some insight.

He told me that he would do 2 coats of stain on the entire deck. Then on the hand rails (top cap) only he said he would do a third coat using transparent to "make it shine" and have a polished finish.

From sand to finish - approx 4-5 days with 2 guys.

Is this an Ok practice?

He also said it will last 4-5 years and he would guarantee it for 3. But he was foreign so it was hard to fully understand him and I'm not 100% sure he understood me when I asked how long he would warranty it for.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:05 PM   #18
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Quote:
Originally Posted by adgjqetuo
Sorry to keep this on-going, but I got a third estimate.

This guy said he would use Cabot and do the entire deck by brush - which I really liked.

But this next part concerned me after reading your responses so I'm hoping for some insight.

He told me that he would do 2 coats of stain on the entire deck. Then on the hand rails (top cap) only he said he would do a third coat using transparent to "make it shine" and have a polished finish.

From sand to finish - approx 4-5 days with 2 guys.

Is this an Ok practice?

He also said it will last 4-5 years and he would guarantee it for 3. But he was foreign so it was hard to fully understand him and I'm not 100% sure he understood me when I asked how long he would warranty it for.

There are a lot of different kinds of Cabbot stain, what specifically are we talking about?

I can't think of any Cabbot deck products specified by the manufacturer to be applied in the manner you described. Of course that doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:09 PM   #19
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


I wanted to go with a semi-transparent / toner.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:30 PM   #20
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Quote:
Originally Posted by adgjqetuo
I wanted to go with a semi-transparent / toner.

Both the Cabbot Semi transparent stain and the Cabbot Australian Timber Oil (toner) clearly state that only one coat should be applied.

http://www.valsparpaint.com/system/g...ood_finish.pdf

http://www.valsparpaint.com/system/g...STAIN_3000.pdf

People do it and it looks great for a while, but the fact is these products are Not designed to perform as a high build coating. And using them as such almost always (IME) ends in premature failure. It may even look good for several years, if the traffic is light.

There are deck products designed to perform like that such as Sikkens Dek. But they are very expensive and most are required to be applied to all sides of the deck boards before they are put together.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:44 PM   #21
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Quote:
Originally Posted by adgjqetuo View Post
Sorry to keep this on-going, but I got a third estimate.

This guy said he would use Cabot and do the entire deck by brush - which I really liked.

But this next part concerned me after reading your responses so I'm hoping for some insight.

He told me that he would do 2 coats of stain on the entire deck. Then on the hand rails (top cap) only he said he would do a third coat using transparent to "make it shine" and have a polished finish.

From sand to finish - approx 4-5 days with 2 guys

Is this an Ok practice?

He also said it will last 4-5 years and he would guarantee it for 3. But he was foreign so it was hard to fully understand him and I'm not 100% sure he understood me when I asked how long he would warranty it for.
Most deck stains are only a one coat application. Applying multiply coats will usually leed to failure of the stain. Most deck stains will only last about two years on the walking surface before applying a maintenance coat.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:49 PM   #22
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc
You use the term "toner" and I don't know if there's a technical difference between "stain" and "toner". There are different "levels" of stain, where they have different amounts of solids in them. Such as "clear", "transparent", "translucent", "semi-transparent", "semi-solid", "solid". The way I learned it was that the more solids it has in it, the less penetrative it would be, but the more UV resistant it would be. I think having some tone to it reduces UV rays to an extent, but allows maintenance coats. You seem to be saying that any solids will eventually build up, which makes sense. I'm not sure where "toner" fits in that scale.

Idk either Jeff if there is really a difference. Cabbot puts toner at the bottom of the list of transparencies. I tried to lure Ric into this discussion last time, thought he might could explain.

There does seem to be a difference comparing the products in the field. They separate... differently. It seems like with semi trans it's the pigment that settles out of it, and with toner it seems to be some other solid.

So when you open a can of semi trans after its been sitting a while, the color is not homogenous, its layered through the container with the darker on top usually. Where as toner settles in the bottom of the container and it remains more homogeneous in color.

Last edited by Jmayspaint; 05-10-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:05 PM   #23
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Thanks for the help and info. Based on information here, I think I'm leaning toward the second guy - even though he rolls the floor.

He seems to have provided the most accurate information that is similar to what people here recommend.

My only issue is picking a color tone - I want a natural wood color, but not the yellow PT look - more of a true cedar type color. Anyone have pictures of decks with a similar Cabot Stain applied? Samples are hard to envision.

Maybe something similar to the below.
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain-image-461444263.jpg  
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Last edited by adgjqetuo; 05-11-2014 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:20 AM   #24
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


I would research the Cabot and Flood products a little more. Most things i've read about both of these product is not good. hands down the best product available to Americans is TWP 100. Unfortunately, this product is not available in Canada os I went with a product called Sansin DEK which I can report after 2 years is holding up really well. it's a non flim forming penetrating stain that does not need to be stripped out but can simply be re-applied like the TWP products. Obviously the methodology of putting on the stain is important but choosing the right product is THE most important decision! My $.02.........
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:47 AM   #25
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


What exactly have you read about Cabot that is not good?
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:51 PM   #26
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


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Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
What exactly have you read about Cabot that is not good?
http://www.contractortalk.com/f50/ca...opinion-68446/

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/cab...-cabots-55655/

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/letter-cabot-32055/

Just saying, do your research...removing old stain from a deck is a sh***y job!
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:57 PM   #27
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


I looked up TWP and an issue for me is the closest retailer for the product is over 50 miles away...

All this information, while good, makes it hard to come up with an informed decision
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:12 AM   #28
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Well, that's Cabot I guess, but not the Cabot product we're talking about here as far as I can tell. I didn't see much convincing there. There isn't any UV protection in a clear product, and no one is recommending the solid color products from any manufacturer. As far as I know, we're talking about the straight oil based translucent and semi-transparent products.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:45 AM   #29
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


My experience with Cabbot transparent oil stains had been good. I was just checking on some decks done with it the other day.

The green deck in the first two pics was new PT lumber done with Cabbot semi-solid oil stain in May of 2012. These decks only get a few hours of sun each day, and are holding up well.

The second two pics are of a nine year old deck that was stripped and done with Cabbot Clear Solutions cedar color a little over a year before the pic was taken. This deck gets full afternoon sun.

The last pic of the red deck was taken two years after stripping and coating with Cabbot semi-trans oil stain. This deck gets full sun all day, and as you can see at the time of the pic it was ready for a wash and maintenance coat.

I have had premature failure with Cabbot acrylic solid decking stain.

These are all done with the original Cabbot oil which is still available in my area. I don't know about any newer low VOC formulations.

You will find that the amount of sun your deck gets has a dramatic effect on how often it needs maintained. Decks in full sun IME, get two years maximum.
Attached Thumbnails
New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain-image-741601985.jpg   New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain-image-1181041804.jpg   New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain-image-212912465.jpg   New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain-image-3833516452.jpg   New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain-image-173034076.jpg  

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Old 05-13-2014, 12:30 PM   #30
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New Deck - Spray vs Roll / Brush Stain


Well, photos can be deceiving, but that last "red" deck looks in pretty good condition to me.

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