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-   -   need advice with paintable wall doctor wallcoverings (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/need-advice-paintable-wall-doctor-wallcoverings-116472/)

othercathy 09-06-2011 10:32 PM

need advice with paintable wall doctor wallcoverings
 
I live in a approx 200 yr old house with original plaster walls which i am not interested in removing.After picking all the years of wallpaper off the walls I primed the walls with an oilbased primer. The prepasted paper keeps falling off the walls. I hope someone out there has experience with this and some solutions. The paper was looking great on the walls wet but edges start curling when drying:eek:
I have not tried using an additional adhesive any thoughts?
I have some zinnser adhesive for another project that is applied to walls then paper applied. Wondering if this would work?

ltd 09-06-2011 10:53 PM

i dont hang much anymore ,but i think the primer is absorbing most of the paste.i use to use a product called shields as a sizeing .one thing use your seem roller very lightly as not to force paste away from seem. also i always used a light weight vinal paste thinned with warter and rolled it on with a roller, folded booked let rest for what manufactur recommends then install

user1007 09-06-2011 11:04 PM

Now I step in only to inspire the best paper hanger on this site to respond. Email Chrisn if he does not.

If you are a billboard hanger you use the paste that comes with the paper.

And even then you size the surface first. I have seen some real crappy billboards lately. They are all stretched digital output stretched graphics now.

When it comes to hanging paper there are major differences just in concept between what you put down under it:

Sealers
Primers
Underlays
Sizing

Did you "book" the paper before you tried to hang it?

Thought not. And I do not mean to bash you.

Did you get this paper on sale? It, and it's self-adhesive had been laying around for how many years and the adhesive might be inconsistent because? Ever licked an antique postage stamp? Doesn't work right? Stamp is still worth its face value but you will not get it to stick without new adhesives.

I hired paper hangers to work for me. But only if they promised to put up wallpaper borders with apples, cherubs, monkeys, cheerleaders, buzzards, vampires, zombies or whatever along the top edges. It was my way of saying thanks for making me carve the stuff off.

Good news with your paper not sticking? You forget to buy a plumb bob and snap a reference chalk line didn't you?

chrisn 09-07-2011 03:56 AM

You cannot hang modern day paper over an oil based primer
You need to PRIME the walls with a wall covering primer( shields is not a very good one but it might work for you) Gardz should be available and works much better. Here is probably the best. As to adhesive,well, whatever is on it should work, do NOT add elmers glue to the seams, or border paste or anything else. If the walls are prepped right it will stick( unless you got Norwall:censored:, in which case you are out of luck)

http://www.swingpaints.com/3107.htm

chrisn 09-07-2011 03:59 AM

Now I step in only to inspire the best paper hanger on this site to respond.



wow, I am blushing:blush:

m1951mm 09-07-2011 05:19 AM

I did a cut an paste from a wallpaper site which gave some great information: http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/wa...eparation.html

I have used the Duron's Tack Prep, when it is dry it has it's own tack improving the adhesion of the wallpaper.

Acrylic primer that normally, when dry, leaves a tacky surface. This surface allows wallcoverings to easily adhere to the surface. Sometimes referred to as a primer/size. Examples of prep coats are Roman's R-35, Zinsser's Z-54, California Paint's Prep 'n Size, Golden Harvest's BITE, Muralo's Adhesium, Duron's Tack Prep, and Benjamin Moore's Wall-Grip.

Hanging wallpaper on a smooth/flat surface is difficult enough, but when you are working over old plaster walls with all the wonderful characture bumps and waves even a professional has difficulty getting the seams perfect IMHO, ChrisN maybe and exception:thumbup:. When the paper is wet it will stretch, when it dries it will go back to the factory dimension. I have had situations hanging paper that looked really nice at the seams only to have it shrink back after it dried. To minimize the visual of the seams shrinking back I tint up the primer so that it matches the background of the wallpaper. The action of trying to get the seams to line up (putting to much pressure on the paper with whatever tool you are using) will push out some of the glue. If I find that the installation is not going well at the seams I will "paint" border adhesive along the edge just prior to putting up the new sheet. Border adhesive is much stronger.

OK Chris---Comments Please:)

othercathy 09-07-2011 07:07 AM

thank you everyone for your input
I will try your advice
cathy

user1007 09-07-2011 08:00 AM

Like I say. I think hanging at least expensive paper belongs in the hands of someone knowing what they are doing. The stuff that used to be in bins at wallpapers to go or whatever is what it is. Perfectly suited to being sold by kids as gift wrap for fundraisers.

My only real attempt at paper from scratch was for a hippy dippy college (mine) that got Peter Max 7-up billboards donated for interior renovation. With a lot of trimming and so forth it did turn out rather cool---for its era. Little Joplin, Gracie Slick and the Airplane (not the Starship) and Hendrix added to the background work music and it was a nice day on the job. I worked with someone like Chris (although Chris almost admitted to carrying Captain & Tenille and Barry Manilow in his little pink job boom box) that new how to prime and size the walls, how to mix the adhesive (not glue), and how long to book the paper and just stand staring at it before it went near the wall. I learned that day, the difference between DIY paper hanging and the real thing. It really is a craft and one I chose not to pursue.

No offense Mickey but I would not pay for paper job hung with gaps in seams needing tinted primer underneath. Don't papers still come with pattern repeats so this does not happen? Even the billboard sections mentioned did. And like I say, as long as any job comes with stupid borders from the underworld that all painters like to see when prepping a job? The ones that need a jackhammer to peel loose after you get the pure silicone caulking peeled off?

m1951mm 09-07-2011 08:41 AM

(although Chris almost admitted to carrying Captain & Tenille and Barry Manilow in his little pink job boom box)

Way to funny:laughing:. Yea give me Gracie, Jethro, Doors---------oh the good old days!!!!

No offense taken, I was stating more for information for the OP that paper hanging is an art as you say. A good paper hanger would go in and counsel on the paper choice when doing plaster walls. I would love to learn how to make a paper set properly on an uneven surface without double cutting. That is why I ask Chris for his (or is it her:wink:) input to my post.

chrisn 09-07-2011 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1951mm (Post 722860)
I did a cut an paste from a wallpaper site which gave some great information: http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/wa...eparation.html

I have used the Duron's Tack Prep, when it is dry it has it's own tack improving the adhesion of the wallpaper.

Acrylic primer that normally, when dry, leaves a tacky surface. This surface allows wallcoverings to easily adhere to the surface. Sometimes referred to as a primer/size. Examples of prep coats are Roman's R-35, Zinsser's Z-54, California Paint's Prep 'n Size, Golden Harvest's BITE, Muralo's Adhesium, Duron's Tack Prep, and Benjamin Moore's Wall-Grip.

Hanging wallpaper on a smooth/flat surface is difficult enough, but when you are working over old plaster walls with all the wonderful characture bumps and waves even a professional has difficulty getting the seams perfect IMHO, ChrisN maybe and exception:thumbup:. When the paper is wet it will stretch, when it dries it will go back to the factory dimension. I have had situations hanging paper that looked really nice at the seams only to have it shrink back after it dried. To minimize the visual of the seams shrinking back I tint up the primer so that it matches the background of the wallpaper. The action of trying to get the seams to line up (putting to much pressure on the paper with whatever tool you are using) will push out some of the glue. If I find that the installation is not going well at the seams I will "paint" border adhesive along the edge just prior to putting up the new sheet. Border adhesive is much stronger.

OK Chris---Comments Please:)

First off, bad,bad girl. ADHESIVE if you please:whistling2:
Second, if you EVER have to remove that paper that you stuck border adhesive on( which is more like actual glue) you would not in your wildest dreams do that again. Bad,bad,bad girl.
Third, painting a base coat of color where the seams align does so good, if it is applied properly. You might get some white showing which is the paper backing and needs to be addressed( that is another paragraph).If you have seams opening up so much that the wall is showing, wellllll, stick to painting.:laughing:
Fourth,sizing is an antiquated term that was used back in the day when real animal glue was applied to the plaster walls first to size them in preparation of hanging the paper. It is no longer done that way
All of the primers you mentioned will work but the one I posted just works better(IMO)
There, now I cannot type again till tomorrow, you wore out my finger:laughing:

chrisn 09-07-2011 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1951mm (Post 722915)
(although Chris almost admitted to carrying Captain & Tenille and Barry Manilow in his little pink job boom box)

Way to funny:laughing:. Yea give me Gracie, Jethro, Doors---------oh the good old days!!!!

No offense taken, I was stating more for information for the OP that paper hanging is an art as you say. A good paper hanger would go in and counsel on the paper choice when doing plaster walls. I would love to learn how to make a paper set properly on an uneven surface without double cutting. That is why I ask Chris for his (or is it her:wink:) input to my post.


Ok OK, so I made a mistake, jees louise.

Airplane good, Starship, commercial, not so good.


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