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Old 07-04-2012, 03:40 AM   #76
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


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Originally Posted by ccarlisle
puck101, you are - by your own admission - what some might call an advanced DIYer when it comes to painting in that you paint more than occasionally, and are of the opinion that pretty well any paint will do the job.

This is not a knock. I'm just saying that that is the perspective you personally have on it. Now we don't know if you're colour-blind or paint by numbers, we don't know if you have taste or not, have practical experience or not, have flair or not - or any other attribute - and we don't really care. You are one person with an opinion. And your opinion is fine...

So why knock the pro painters here who paint for a living, who have tons of experience in handling different paints in different situations, and who all seem to have come to the same conclusion about Behr/Valpar/Glidden (you name it) paints? Do you have any idea of the number of professional opinions that we have seen here over the past few years on this subject? What do you think they've formed an anti-Behr union and all have their daggers out for it?

No. Each one of these guys have made comparative trials using a number of brands and have come up with a list of paints that they prefer to use day-in and day-out. S-W and B-M are somewhere near the top, Behr is towards the bottom. By trial-and-error over a number of substrates in a number of conditions, they eventually gravitate to the paints that serve them the best, over time, day -in and day-out..

That doesn't mean these lower priced products won't do a good job in a given situation for the average once-a-decade DIY painter - because he doesn't have the discerning objective these pros have - and that's the marketing aim of Home Depot etc. Not the pros.

So it comes down to optics; seen from a DIY perspective, Behr meets that standard. However from a knowledgeable perspective, it doesn't. Just depends on your viewpoint and where you are on the ladder.
Well stated!

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Old 07-05-2012, 12:24 AM   #77
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


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Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
The HO, NEVER buys the paint I am going to use
When i paint as well, I NEVER let the homeowner buy the paint. I only use the best. But since I also am a paint sales man, I can understand when a HO comes into the paint store, upset because the painter is using crappy box store paint or low quality paint. SO in THAT situation, I can understand the HO wanting to buy Ben Moore from a paint store and having his painter use it. But basically, a HO needs to cover this BEFORE the job is started and ask the painter WHAT kind of paint he is using, and research it BEFORE he hires him.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:10 AM   #78
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


I thought this thread was dead... Unfortunately its' not, and I'm still getting quoted on it (and usually misinterpreted), so I feel like I need to clarify my points.
Most of my experience is doing remodeling, which included painting, Currently, I'm only doing small jobs, some of which are only painting. So I am not an advanced DIY'er.
I tried Behr on my own house about 5 years to test it out and to learn about it. I had some gallons/colors go up great. I had some give me a lot of trouble trying to get coverage. I was able to make it all look good in the end, but most of the paint faded away and thinned out over the past 5 years.
CONCLUSION: It's a cheap paint and is very inconsistent. If a house-flipper or DIY'er uses Behr, and likes it, I see no reason to try to convince them to use something else. If it works for them, great, I just don't hate Behr enough to get involved; this by no stretch of the imagination means that I encourage people to use it. I most definitely do not recommend to any painting contractors using Ben Moore, SW, etc., to change over to Behr. I use Ben Moore as my regular brand. I have had HO provide me with paint. I don't do this as a rule. I prefer to buy the paint myself. But I have had people call me who have started painting and realized they suck at it, they hate it, or they just don't have tim to finish it, and I don't automatically turn them down for providing the paint, I just tell them I cannot guarantee their products. This usually involves Behr and SW. I think Behr is definitely a step down in quality, consistency, and price, but i ca put it p if need be. The stuff from SW I find to be very good, but each of their versions performs a little differently than the similar level product from Ben Moore. So I'm not concerned about putting up SW like I am with Behr, but it is still different, and is not my regular stuff, so I still don't guarantee the product

Hopefully this clarifies my opinion so I can stop being quoted and/or misinterpreted. I am not pro-Behr, but I am also not anti-Behr like some others; I don't like it, but I don't necessarily "dislike" it. In fact, the one thing I learned by trying it on my house was that I won't be buying any more of it...
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:56 AM   #79
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


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Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
From a chemical ingredients standpoint, the answer is an immediate and unqualified "yes"...just like anything else, there are cheap ingredients and there are expensive ingredients and the main reason why you use one or the other (apart from financial constraints) is quality of the finished product i.e the paint film - and therefore the lower the cost.

Research by the manufacturers of the ingredients (ie. people like Dow, BASF, Tioxide, R&H etc) aims at obtaining a "better" product i.e one that performs better, quicker or cheaper to give a specified performance. It is easy to make a $100/gallon (cost) paint given unlimited ressources, the challenge becomes how to make a paint that matches that performance at a suitable price for a given market...

It is also relatively easy - although more of a technical challenge - to make a cheap paint, using the minimum ingredients and technical ressources in manufacturing, but it is done and I qualify those paints as $8/gallon paints (for my own reasons). These budget paints have a place in the market, but come with their own set of limitations and lowering of quality.

Now what the consumer also sees is the cost of marketing. Home Depot can purchase a can of $8/gall paint and resell it for $32 in order to make a profit point for the whole store. B-M make a paint for $22/gall marks it up to pay for their stores and sells is at $44. Which is the better buy?

Most consumers think they can save by buying the $32/gall paint from H-D because they think they have "saved" $12/gall. They go off happy and apply a paint that they have to redo in half the time it would have taken the better paint to last - at comparable specifications. That's where the fly gets in the ointment.

What is "comparable specifications" to the average consumer? 'Looks "good"'? 'Goes on with a roller'? 'Matches the colour I want'? 'Saves me money'? 'Bought from one store'? Cleans up with water'? No VOCs?...

These are all valid reasons why the average paint consumer buys a paint; note that thickness of paint film (= longer wear life) or "rheology of paint" (= ease of application) are NOT criteria they would use (that's not their fault) but that these criteria affect the cost of a layer of paint.

It's the classic mismatch. There's nothing wrong with $8/gall paint, but what some of us put forward is that $8/gall paint COSTS more, even though it is cheaper in price. But since people can't see into the future and will never know how much their paint film actually costs, they ignore the very things research aims at.

But research does tell us that the more expensive the paint (not by consumers criteria), the better the film, and the lower the cost.
I'm sorry to say CCarlisle but someone has drank the cool-aid and Sherwin and Benjamin. Home Depot does not take an 8 dollar can of paint and sell it for $22.00 and Benjamin does not take a $22 dollar can of paint and sell it for $44. Home Depot on average makes about 25% on a can of paint, while Benjamin and Sherwin average 60% per gallon. So lets do some math.

A $19 gallon of Glidden 220 is going to cost Home Depot around $15.00. A $31 gallon of Sherwin Williams Pro Mar 200 will cost around the same amount and the same goes for a gallon of Benjamin Moore Super Spec which is going to be the same price as well. The difference is the Home Depot doesn't rip off the average joe walking through the door. Where as Sherwin and Benjamin do. The max discount at Sherwin is around 60% off, this is for major contractors. I can tell you this, they are not losing money at this rate. Also how often do you see the 40% off sign up at Sherwin? When was the last time you saw 40% off at Lowes, Home Depot or Menards?

I have compared many paints to Sherwin and Benjamin and while your sales pitch may sound good for these companies, it's simply that a sales pitch. I've heard the sales people at Sherwin claim their paint causes less dust, scrubs better, and all sorts of other nutty stuff you can't prove. It's all b.s.. Now I'm not saying that Sherwin is a bad paint because that would not be true, but it's not miles better either and in some cases it not as good.

I'm going to use Glidden as the example as a big box brand as I know their paint it great and I've compared it to Sherwin on more that one occasion. Glidden is owned by PPG which also owns Pittsburg Paint, Porter, Devoe, Olympic, Sikkens and many other brands. PPG dwarfs Sherwin Williams in R&D research. Go look at Sherwins income statement and see what they spent the last 3 years on R&D the number is so small its not even reported! PPG on the other hand spent $488 million last year. So all of this talk of Sherwin spending more on R&D is pure bull. PPG has a gross profit margin of 42% while Sherwin has a gross profit margin of 55%. These numbers show what each make on a can of paint excluding all other operating costs. Also with Sherwin you need to remember that most of their paint is sold to contractors so they are not paying the ridiculous list prices that sherwin puts on their paint more like 40% less which Sherwin is still making a hearty mark up. So who is marking up their paint more?

Now I am no Behr fan so I'm going to agree their paint stinks, but Valspar and Glidden are both box store brands and are both great paints.
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:39 PM   #80
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


sorry for the above typo's. I tried to edit the above post, but there is no way to edit it once posted.
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Old 07-25-2014, 03:11 PM   #81
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


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sorry for the above typo's. I tried to edit the above post, but there is no way to edit it once posted.
You have 30 minutes to edit....This thread is over 2 years old btw.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:51 PM   #82
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My Review: Valspar vs Behr vs Olympic vs ColorPlace


[QUOTE=Endeavour32;1380432]I'm sorry to say CCarlisle but someone has drank the cool-aid and Sherwin and Benjamin. Home Depot does not take an 8 dollar can of paint and sell it for $22.00 and Benjamin does not take a $22 dollar can of paint and sell it for $44. Home Depot on average makes about 25% on a can of paint, while Benjamin and Sherwin average 60% per gallon. So lets do some math.

A $19 gallon of Glidden 220 is going to cost Home Depot around $15.00. A $31 gallon of Sherwin Williams Pro Mar 200 will cost around the same amount and the same goes for a gallon of Benjamin Moore Super Spec which is going to be the same price as well. The difference is the Home Depot doesn't rip off the average joe walking through the door. Where as Sherwin and Benjamin do. The max discount at Sherwin is around 60% off, this is for major contractors. I can tell you this, they are not losing money at this rate. Also how often do you see the 40% off sign up at Sherwin? When was the last time you saw 40% off at Lowes, Home Depot or Menards?

I have compared many paints to Sherwin and Benjamin and while your sales pitch may sound good for these companies, it's simply that a sales pitch. I've heard the sales people at Sherwin claim their paint causes less dust, scrubs better, and all sorts of other nutty stuff you can't prove. It's all b.s.. Now I'm not saying that Sherwin is a bad paint because that would not be true, but it's not miles better either and in some cases it not as good.

I'm going to use Glidden as the example as a big box brand as I know their paint it great and I've compared it to Sherwin on more that one occasion. Glidden is owned by PPG which also owns Pittsburg Paint, Porter, Devoe, Olympic, Sikkens and many other brands. PPG dwarfs Sherwin Williams in R&D research. Go look at Sherwins income statement and see what they spent the last 3 years on R&D the number is so small its not even reported! PPG on the other hand spent $488 million last year. So all of this talk of Sherwin spending more on R&D is pure bull. PPG has a gross profit margin of 42% while Sherwin has a gross profit margin of 55%. These numbers show what each make on a can of paint excluding all other operating costs. Also with Sherwin you need to remember that most of their paint is sold to contractors so they are not paying the ridiculous list prices that sherwin puts on their paint more like 40% less which Sherwin is still making a hearty mark up. So who is marking up their paint more?

Now I am no Behr fan so I'm going to agree their paint stinks, but Valspar and Glidden are both box store brands and are both great paints.[/QUOTE]


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