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Old 07-01-2011, 10:16 AM   #1
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


Carried on from my "Linseed Oil Paint" post:

The house was built in 1967. It's in Chilliwack, British Columbia, and the rain hasn't stopped for 8 months. Summer could be hot, if it ever gets here. Climate is probably similar to Seattle, but a little hotter in the summer due to being further from the ocean.

The house has cedar clapboards, and the wood is of good quality and in good condition. The problems started a few years ago when the original owners had it painted by somebody else due to their advancing age. From what I'm told, he (the neighbour I silently curse every time I see him) pressure washed it and sprayed it. When we moved in, the paint was starting to peel badly. The house is fairly tall, so we hired someone to paint the "tall" parts. She scraped the loose stuff and gave it a light sanding. The paint she applied starting cracking fairly quickly. It would appear that the paint she applied has bonded to the old layers of paint on the clapboards, as it is now peeling off in big sheets that expose the wood underneath--maybe I should have had her paint the entire house, because it looks like all the paint would have fallen off within another year and I could start fresh.

The linseed oil paint idea looked attractive because it is supposed to last and not peel. I DO NOT want to be doing this job over and over again.

Here are some pics of the area that was recently repainted--peeling away nicely:



Pillar that was recently repainted--cracking and stains coming through:


Area that was repainted a few years ago (the power wash and spray method):

Trim on a post outside--the bare areas leave a chalky residue if you wipe a finger over them:

Soffits:

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Old 07-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #2
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


What type of paint was used to paint your house? It looks like a flat paint to me. Was it latex or what?

We live in the Seattle area and paint all our homes with at least a Satin finish. It's unfortunate, but in my opinion--you've got a lot of scraping to do. Check out the Paint Shaver or the other one that uses heat--Silent Painter. I would say most all of that paint has to come off before I would even dream of painting it.
Then, hire a qualified painting company who has experience with your climate. If the paint fails, you at least have someone you can go back to and demand a refund or a re-paint. Most quality companies will offer some sort of guarantee.
I'm sure other people will have great ideas, but I would say hire a professional.

I'd worry about the moss on your roof too, unless you want to pay for roof repairs.


Last edited by HomesteadHero; 07-01-2011 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:34 PM   #3
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


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What type of paint was used to paint your house? It looks like a flat paint to me. Was it latex or what?

We live in the Seattle area and paint all our homes with at least a Satin finish. It's unfortunate, but in my opinion--you've got a lot of scraping to do. Check out the Paint Shaver or the other one that uses heat--Silent Painter. I would say most all of that paint has to come off before I would even dream of painting it.
Then, hire a qualified painting company who has experience with your climate. If the paint fails, you at least have someone you can go back to and demand a refund or a re-paint. Most quality companies will offer some sort of guarantee.
I'm sure other people will have great ideas, but I would say hire a professional.

I'd worry about the moss on your roof too, unless you want to pay for roof repairs.
The top layer is latex. I'll definitely use an oil primer, though.

I'm of the mind that as much as possible must come off. I've had a few quotes, but nobody will guarantee anything unless if's stripped, and nobody will quote that cost. Others just say they'll scrape the loose stuff and go to it, but that'll look bad when it's done, and probably won't work anyways. My thought is to strip it myself, and hire someone to do final prep/paint as you've suggested.

I plan to use a infra-red paint remover as I can work with that in the early hours before the kids get up, and the mess will be more easily contained. I've also got someone reliable and reasonable I can hire to work on it during the times when I'm occupied with other things. If I can handle the stripping, I think the paint quotes will become more reasonable, and the painters will be willing to guarantee their work. Might have to limit myself to stretching it out over a couple of years, but I need it to be done properly (unfortunately, a colour change is out of the question if it can't all be done at once).
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:42 PM   #4
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


Sounds like you've got a great handle on things. The house looks like a beautiful one, and you've got your work cut out for you, but when it's all finished it's going to look fantastic.

I'm enclosing a link to an article on Roof Maintenance you might like..

http://homesteadhero.net/roofing-101...g-your-roof-2/
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:55 PM   #5
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


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Sounds like you've got a great handle on things. The house looks like a beautiful one, and you've got your work cut out for you, but when it's all finished it's going to look fantastic.

I'm enclosing a link to an article on Roof Maintenance you might like..

http://homesteadhero.net/roofing-101...g-your-roof-2/
Thanks.

The moss is on the to-do list as it looks like I'll be up there quite a lot this summer.
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:17 PM   #6
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


Ah-ha...is that Western Red Cedar? Even if it isn't WRC, you'll have to pay particuar attention to the fact that cedar has colouring compounds in it that may affect the final colouring of your finish.

But seeing as how it is still a wood, then a few things apply:

(a) it will require an oil or alkyd primer and preferably two finish coats of an acrylic paint, to get about 10+ years worth out of the paint job.
(b) seeing as how you are in a special climate where it gets very wet, painting when the wood has less than 18% moisture content will be a challenge.
(c) brushing IMO would be better than spraying...
(d) whatever you apply on cedar must be cedar-aproved and preferably a local product to where you live; I know there are companies out there that do that, not necessarily national-name brands either.
(e) drying concerns me. That is I am not sure how the walls dry - to the inside, to the outside - or not at all. That means more research and questions about insulation & vapour barriers if any...

As far as linseed oil paint goes, I am out of my depth and couldn't say for sure whether or not linseed oil paints would do here. My gut tells me it's fine but I'd rather defer to a local expert.

You never did say what prep was done before the finish coat was applied by those two people. In fact, I'd go as far as to say your primer identification - if it was put on - is more relevant than the choice of sheens. Any way you can find out?

It may be redundant to ask that at this point, since I am not sure you have any other choice but to strip it.

I think the pressure wash also had something to do with it; but what alternatives there were/are, I don't know.
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:27 PM   #7
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


Is that a plywood soffit peeling too?

It seems that you have a biggger peeling problem at the ceiling level and the floor levels, or is that me? = an insulation leak?

Just wondering.
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:42 PM   #8
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


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You never did say what prep was done before the finish coat was applied by those two people. In fact, I'd go as far as to say your primer identification - if it was put on - is more relevant than the choice of sheens. Any way you can find out?

It may be redundant to ask that at this point, since I am not sure you have any other choice but to strip it.

I think the pressure wash also had something to do with it; but what alternatives there were/are, I don't know.
I have no idea what the prep looked like for the paint job prior to our buying the house. The person who did the areas that are now peeling the most sprayed everything with bleach and water, power washed, scraped the loose paint, did some sanding, then primed and painted (though may not have primed beyond the parts that had been scraped down to the wood).

It would appear that she used Zinsser 123 Bullseye primer, which is--according to the website--water based. The painters I've talked to since much prefer the Zinsser Cover Stain (oil-based) or one of the oil-based primers from Cloverdale Paint.

I tackled a small area last summer using the Zinsser CoverStain, and it seems to be holding well except in a few places where I didn't get all the old layers off. That would seem to tell me that if I scrape everything/use the infra-red paint remover I should get good adhesion with an oil-based primer and a quality top coat.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:41 PM   #9
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


GSP, you have a number of types of paint failure occurring there. The blistering, where it's falling off in sheets, was probably an area redone when the wood was too wet to repaint, or as stated before, you have vapor barrier issues. Moisture is transferring from the inside through the outside, taking the paint with it. The other failures, checking and cracking, could have a number of causes. Regardless, the best course is complete removal. After complete removal, I would
Wash the house with a solution of trisodium phosphate and bleach, rinse it with some pressure, but not the typical power washing pressure, use about 500 psi.
Allow the surface to fully dry, even if you have to tarp areas of the house to prevent the rain from hitting it, this is critical. Max moisture content is 18%, preferably 15.
Machine sand the entire surface. This is critical. When wood is exposed to the sun, as little as one week, the surface becomes degraded as the sun's UV rays destroys the lignin and the wood fibers begin to separate. This layer of dead wood must be sanded off down to a stable, sound surface. Pressure washing alone does not accomplish this job. Once the wood is sanded and dusted off, use air pressure, it must be primed immediately.
Cover stain is good and spec'd for cedar. However, it dries quickly and thus doesn't penetrate as deeply as other longer oils might. CS suggests over night dry on cedar, so the quick dry aspect doesn't give the edge over longer drying oils. I would look into BM Pentetrating Alkyd Primer or Cabot's Problem Solver Primer, both excellent for cedar applications. Or, you may want to consider chucking the primer/paint and doing a two coat solid stain system, which may prove to be better for you now cost wise, and in the long term because of ease in prep for refinishing.
If you do it over the long term, do it wisely. Do one side at a time, strip it completely, wash it completely, then sand it completely. Prime/stain completely. Remember, after one week the wood begins to degrade, and mildew grows probably as quickly.
All first coats must be thoroughly brushed into the grain, no spraying. Primer must be "massaged" into the wood, especially when it's weathered. Otherwise, it just lays on the surface.
I would look into using Peel Away paint removal system, which would allow you to do whole sides in one fell swoop. Stay close to the forum and keep us posted. Ask questions before you act, don't wait and ask how to correct mistakes. Good Luck.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:49 PM   #10
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


I hear everyone talking about brushing the primer on and I'm betting that to anyone with as big of a house, they're probably saying "Yeah right".
Would spraying the house, and then back rolling it be more of a time saver?
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:14 PM   #11
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


I would also do a lead test, before scraping or sanding.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:21 PM   #12
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


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I hear everyone talking about brushing the primer on and I'm betting that to anyone with as big of a house, they're probably saying "Yeah right".
Would spraying the house, and then back rolling it be more of a time saver?
Actually, when it comes to raw wood, rolling requires back brushing. In that type of app, the roller only applies the finish to speed things, it still must be brushed into the wood and layed off. Spraying bare drywall requires back rolling, and spraying/rolling bare wood requires back brushing. Just is, the size of the project doesn't matter. What did painters do prior to the invention of rollers and sprayers? When my father started, they painted ceilings/walls with six inch brushes and buckets of paint, with leaded paint. Talk about a workout. I'm told that when rollers were first introduced, the unions resisted using them because it put men out of work. The brush will always be the basic application tool, regardless.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:36 PM   #13
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


Yuck! I can not imagine brushing one interior wall, let alone an entire 2 story house. I'd let the paint fall off naturally. Interesting about the unions though.
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Old 07-01-2011, 11:23 PM   #14
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GSP, you have a number of types of paint failure occurring there. The blistering, where it's falling off in sheets, was probably an area redone when the wood was too wet to repaint, or as stated before, you have vapor barrier issues. Moisture is transferring from the inside through the outside, taking the paint with it. The other failures, checking and cracking, could have a number of causes. Regardless, the best course is complete removal. After complete removal, I would
Wash the house with a solution of trisodium phosphate and bleach, rinse it with some pressure, but not the typical power washing pressure, use about 500 psi.
Allow the surface to fully dry, even if you have to tarp areas of the house to prevent the rain from hitting it, this is critical. Max moisture content is 18%, preferably 15.
Machine sand the entire surface. This is critical. When wood is exposed to the sun, as little as one week, the surface becomes degraded as the sun's UV rays destroys the lignin and the wood fibers begin to separate. This layer of dead wood must be sanded off down to a stable, sound surface. Pressure washing alone does not accomplish this job. Once the wood is sanded and dusted off, use air pressure, it must be primed immediately.
Cover stain is good and spec'd for cedar. However, it dries quickly and thus doesn't penetrate as deeply as other longer oils might. CS suggests over night dry on cedar, so the quick dry aspect doesn't give the edge over longer drying oils. I would look into BM Pentetrating Alkyd Primer or Cabot's Problem Solver Primer, both excellent for cedar applications. Or, you may want to consider chucking the primer/paint and doing a two coat solid stain system, which may prove to be better for you now cost wise, and in the long term because of ease in prep for refinishing.
If you do it over the long term, do it wisely. Do one side at a time, strip it completely, wash it completely, then sand it completely. Prime/stain completely. Remember, after one week the wood begins to degrade, and mildew grows probably as quickly.
All first coats must be thoroughly brushed into the grain, no spraying. Primer must be "massaged" into the wood, especially when it's weathered. Otherwise, it just lays on the surface.
I would look into using Peel Away paint removal system, which would allow you to do whole sides in one fell swoop. Stay close to the forum and keep us posted. Ask questions before you act, don't wait and ask how to correct mistakes. Good Luck.

Thanks for all that! I'll look into the Peel Away system--I see that two of the local paint stores are listed as dealers. As for the rinsing stage, I have one of those cheap electric pressure washers, so I hope it might do the trick. I'll have to see if I can find out how much psi its pushing out. As for the washing stage with TSP and bleach, how much of each do you recommend? Should I spray it on with a garden sprayer and do some scrubbing? Just let it sit then rinse?

Big challenge for me is dealing with the highest spots, as I can't reach one roofline from the other. I'm not a fan of falling down!
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:45 AM   #15
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My Peeling Clapboard Nightmare


As Joe has said, ditch the Cover Stain and find a SLOW dry oil( alkyd) primer

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