Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-21-2008, 07:16 AM   #1
Another DIY Zombie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Champlain, NY (NY, VT, QC Border)
Posts: 281
Share |
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


Had an entry into a hallway that we had to paint. It made sense to repaint the hallway while were at it. So, we prepped, primed and painted the hallway. All went very well. then I put up all the moulding, trim, etc. for the hallway. This was about a month ago. Now Saturday, we tape off the hallway side of the entry, then paint the entry (actually, the wife painted the entry Sunday morning). Normally, I would remove the tape immediately after painting, but did not get to it. So, it had to wait until Monday night. I start to remove the tape from the hallway and it lifted the paint & primer off every area that was repaired down to dry JC!

I know that I used a drywall primer (not sure of brand, but think it was by zinseer). This has happened in the past, and when the JC was exposed, I could feel and see dust that was not removed. I know that when I primed this area, I was very diligent in cleaning before priming. I vacuumed, and wiped down real well. This time when it was exposed, there was no residual left on a finger after touching it, nor was there signs of dust on the back side of the primer that peeled off.

So, once again, we sand and fill and sand and fill and sand and clean and wipe and prime and hope for the best.

i have never seen this happen before on any paint job that I have done over the last 20 years! This house is possessed!

javan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 11:25 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


a.) What is "JC".

b.) Was the name of the primer you used "Zinsser's Bullseye 123". I too have had similar problems using this primer that were solved by switching to a different primer.

c.) Where I have had problems with the painter's tape pulling off paint is most often when repairs were made with a joint compound that didn't have enough glue in it. When I'm repairing a wall, I'll often mist the wet joint compound with a spray bottle while smoothing it with a trowel. That gets the surface of the compound wet so that it's easier to trowel smooth. The problem is that if you do that too much, then the glue gets washed out of the compound and it dries very powdery. Primer and paint will stick well to this powdery surface and the tape will stick well to the paint. The problem is that the powdery surface isn't strong and the grains of gypsum aren't sticking to each other well. So, when you pull the tape off, the chain breaks at it's weakest point, which is INSIDE the joint compound, not at the joint compound/tape interface.

The way to tell if the failure occured at the joint compound/tape interface or under it is to see if the tape is still sticky. If the sticky side of the tape isn't sticky anymore, it's because it's covered with a very fine dust, indicating the failure occured just under the surface.

I'm wondering if the moisture from a latex primer might cause the washing out of glue from the surface layer of a drywall joint compound?

I'm wondering what the others in here think of this idea to overcome any problems with weak joint compound: (does "JC" mean "joint compound"?)

1. Get your joint compound repair smooth as you can and allow to dry.

2. Paint over it with a dilute solution of white wood glue. The glue will be absorbed into the joint compound and consolidate it as it dries.

3. Never, ever, never paint directly over white wood glue (or dry diluted white wood glue) with a latex paint or primer cuz the moisture will re-emulsify the glue, giving you a mess to fight with. So, use an interior ALKYD primer over that repaired area.

4. Now paint over the alkyd primer with whatever you want.

What do people think of this game plan?

Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 11:44 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near Philly
Posts: 1,986
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


i think jc is joint compound
bob22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 11:45 AM   #4
Another DIY Zombie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Champlain, NY (NY, VT, QC Border)
Posts: 281
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


Yes, JC is Joint Compound.

I had filled in some holes in the failed areas, and then had thinned the JC with water to get a finer finish, then sanded, wiped and primed.

The primer was the Zinseer Bullseye 123.

For the new repair work, I have sanded the paint edges smooth, and have filled with JC. Will sand and prime, will not apply a thinned skim coat.

Question, what is a good alkyd primer?
javan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 11:46 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near Philly
Posts: 1,986
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


I'd skip the dilute glue and use an alcohol-based primer so you don't have to worry about water/latex issues.
bob22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2008, 07:29 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


Zinsser's "BIN" is a shellac based primer. I've never used it, but I know a little about it.

Shellac dissolves in alcohol. You might be able to use paint thinner to clean your brushes, but using alcohol (isopropyl or denatured ethanol) should clean up any shellac (both when it's wet, and after it dries).

Shellac sticks well to darn near anything.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 01:57 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


That is one of the reasons I try not to use tape when at all possible. I find it so much easier to just use a brush and cut in where I would normally paint. I get no paint leakage, no damage to the wall, and I usually get a straighter line.

The only time I use tape is if I am doing strips or patterns on a wall, and then I use a very thin line of caulk over the tape and remove it almost immediately.
GodFather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 07:00 AM   #8
Another DIY Zombie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Champlain, NY (NY, VT, QC Border)
Posts: 281
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


She used a different type of tape (almost transparent) when we were touching up the chair rail in another room. I was very nervous about this since the wall was painted with sponging technique. But the tape came off very easily, with no seapage, or paint damage. Have to figure out what it was.

I do not like tape either, but usually find myself in too much of a hurry to do a nice job free hand. That being said, I am not using tape for my shoe moulding, and that is turning out very nice.
javan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 12:52 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,264
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


I do all my cutting in with a 3 inch roller and a piece of sheet metal. Just start a foot or two from the sheet metal and spread the paint up to the metal. If you start right at the metal with a full roller, paint will get squeezed up under the metal to get on the surface you're trying to protect.

People tell me I don't get a very good line doing it that way. I tell them I don't get a very good line doing it with tape or a brush either. It just takes a lot longer getting poor results with tape or a brush.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 01:04 PM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


You should be able to get a perfect line with a tapered brush. It just takes time and a little bit of experience.

When I first started painting I could not get a good line no matter what I did, but as I painted more, my lines got better and better and I now feel like I can paint as well as the pros.
GodFather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2008, 07:46 PM   #11
Tired, Cold, and Damp
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 3,089
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


That's not a primer issue, that's a tape issue
slickshift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2008, 08:30 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 323
Default

More Painting Issues (actually primer)


Boy, lots of good info in this thread. I learned a little about taping -- I only do it for hard places, such as where a plaster ceiling meets the bumpy plaster wall, but always remove quickly. Here's a good overview of common paint problems -- a little long, but it hits some of these issues:

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-ad...problems.shtml

Allison1888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
painting bathroom - primer for greenboard and hardiebacker? carrotguy Remodeling 5 06-23-2008 02:50 PM
Painting over polyurethane coated wood doors flashme18 Painting 9 04-19-2008 09:51 PM
Painting Bare Steel- Sand First or Use Etch Primer? scott890 Painting 2 10-11-2007 04:32 PM
Painting Exterior Spruce Rough-sawn trim questions Stonemeel Painting 8 09-11-2007 07:00 AM
Is it normal for primer to show thru dark paint on first coat? Autumnknight Painting 5 10-02-2006 06:38 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.