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-   -   More Painting Issues (actually primer) (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/more-painting-issues-actually-primer-25532/)

javan 08-21-2008 07:16 AM

More Painting Issues (actually primer)
 
Had an entry into a hallway that we had to paint. It made sense to repaint the hallway while were at it. So, we prepped, primed and painted the hallway. All went very well. then I put up all the moulding, trim, etc. for the hallway. This was about a month ago. Now Saturday, we tape off the hallway side of the entry, then paint the entry (actually, the wife painted the entry Sunday morning). Normally, I would remove the tape immediately after painting, but did not get to it. So, it had to wait until Monday night. I start to remove the tape from the hallway and it lifted the paint & primer off every area that was repaired down to dry JC!

I know that I used a drywall primer (not sure of brand, but think it was by zinseer). This has happened in the past, and when the JC was exposed, I could feel and see dust that was not removed. I know that when I primed this area, I was very diligent in cleaning before priming. I vacuumed, and wiped down real well. This time when it was exposed, there was no residual left on a finger after touching it, nor was there signs of dust on the back side of the primer that peeled off.

So, once again, we sand and fill and sand and fill and sand and clean and wipe and prime and hope for the best.

i have never seen this happen before on any paint job that I have done over the last 20 years! This house is possessed!

Nestor_Kelebay 08-21-2008 11:25 AM

a.) What is "JC".

b.) Was the name of the primer you used "Zinsser's Bullseye 123". I too have had similar problems using this primer that were solved by switching to a different primer.

c.) Where I have had problems with the painter's tape pulling off paint is most often when repairs were made with a joint compound that didn't have enough glue in it. When I'm repairing a wall, I'll often mist the wet joint compound with a spray bottle while smoothing it with a trowel. That gets the surface of the compound wet so that it's easier to trowel smooth. The problem is that if you do that too much, then the glue gets washed out of the compound and it dries very powdery. Primer and paint will stick well to this powdery surface and the tape will stick well to the paint. The problem is that the powdery surface isn't strong and the grains of gypsum aren't sticking to each other well. So, when you pull the tape off, the chain breaks at it's weakest point, which is INSIDE the joint compound, not at the joint compound/tape interface.

The way to tell if the failure occured at the joint compound/tape interface or under it is to see if the tape is still sticky. If the sticky side of the tape isn't sticky anymore, it's because it's covered with a very fine dust, indicating the failure occured just under the surface.

I'm wondering if the moisture from a latex primer might cause the washing out of glue from the surface layer of a drywall joint compound?

I'm wondering what the others in here think of this idea to overcome any problems with weak joint compound: (does "JC" mean "joint compound"?)

1. Get your joint compound repair smooth as you can and allow to dry.

2. Paint over it with a dilute solution of white wood glue. The glue will be absorbed into the joint compound and consolidate it as it dries.

3. Never, ever, never paint directly over white wood glue (or dry diluted white wood glue) with a latex paint or primer cuz the moisture will re-emulsify the glue, giving you a mess to fight with. So, use an interior ALKYD primer over that repaired area.

4. Now paint over the alkyd primer with whatever you want.

What do people think of this game plan?

bob22 08-21-2008 11:44 AM

i think jc is joint compound

javan 08-21-2008 11:45 AM

Ah Ha!
 
Yes, JC is Joint Compound.

I had filled in some holes in the failed areas, and then had thinned the JC with water to get a finer finish, then sanded, wiped and primed.

The primer was the Zinseer Bullseye 123.

For the new repair work, I have sanded the paint edges smooth, and have filled with JC. Will sand and prime, will not apply a thinned skim coat.

Question, what is a good alkyd primer?

bob22 08-21-2008 11:46 AM

I'd skip the dilute glue and use an alcohol-based primer so you don't have to worry about water/latex issues.

Nestor_Kelebay 08-21-2008 07:29 PM

Zinsser's "BIN" is a shellac based primer. I've never used it, but I know a little about it.

Shellac dissolves in alcohol. You might be able to use paint thinner to clean your brushes, but using alcohol (isopropyl or denatured ethanol) should clean up any shellac (both when it's wet, and after it dries).

Shellac sticks well to darn near anything.

GodFather 08-22-2008 01:57 AM

That is one of the reasons I try not to use tape when at all possible. I find it so much easier to just use a brush and cut in where I would normally paint. I get no paint leakage, no damage to the wall, and I usually get a straighter line.

The only time I use tape is if I am doing strips or patterns on a wall, and then I use a very thin line of caulk over the tape and remove it almost immediately.

javan 08-22-2008 07:00 AM

She used a different type of tape (almost transparent) when we were touching up the chair rail in another room. I was very nervous about this since the wall was painted with sponging technique. But the tape came off very easily, with no seapage, or paint damage. Have to figure out what it was.

I do not like tape either, but usually find myself in too much of a hurry to do a nice job free hand. That being said, I am not using tape for my shoe moulding, and that is turning out very nice.

Nestor_Kelebay 08-22-2008 12:52 PM

I do all my cutting in with a 3 inch roller and a piece of sheet metal. Just start a foot or two from the sheet metal and spread the paint up to the metal. If you start right at the metal with a full roller, paint will get squeezed up under the metal to get on the surface you're trying to protect.

People tell me I don't get a very good line doing it that way. I tell them I don't get a very good line doing it with tape or a brush either. It just takes a lot longer getting poor results with tape or a brush.

GodFather 08-22-2008 01:04 PM

You should be able to get a perfect line with a tapered brush. It just takes time and a little bit of experience.

When I first started painting I could not get a good line no matter what I did, but as I painted more, my lines got better and better and I now feel like I can paint as well as the pros.

slickshift 08-22-2008 07:46 PM

That's not a primer issue, that's a tape issue

Allison1888 08-23-2008 08:30 AM

paint problems
 
Boy, lots of good info in this thread. I learned a little about taping -- I only do it for hard places, such as where a plaster ceiling meets the bumpy plaster wall, but always remove quickly. Here's a good overview of common paint problems -- a little long, but it hits some of these issues:

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-ad...problems.shtml


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