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Old 10-02-2010, 02:05 AM   #16
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


the only way i know of to put a urethane finish on a pigment paint is to heavily prime the wood with auto primer builder, shoot automotive base coat, then the clear coat. no home finishes i have found work this way. i have used auto paints on wood before and with the right prep work it works, very durable too.

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Old 10-06-2010, 02:02 AM   #17
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


one of the main things i hate about fourms, is that people always try to pass off "opinion" as "fact". i stumbled across this thread and had to join just to comment. i was looking for an answer to the same question.

i have no idea how old this thread is - but concerning the question on if you can mix water based poly with laytex paint - apparently you can - quite easliy and with good results. as a matter of fact, the company " Turbine Products" makes a turbine sprayer that can be used to spray latex paint that is thinned out. now guess what they are using to help thin it out??? they even have a "how-to" video on youtube showing exactly how they want customers to thin out latex paint before using it in their sprayer. they use a mix of - conditioner - and WATER BASED POLY to thin out the latex paint before being sprayed in their sprayer. here is the address to the video - see for yourself -

if you give someone advice - please know what you are talking about. what you "think" doesnt justify it as "fact"

Last edited by kctyphoon; 10-06-2010 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 10-06-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Thanks for the video link kctyphoon, I now remember seeing this before and my jaw dropping in wonderment that a spray gun manufacturer would advise such a thing. His final paint mix consisted of 4 oz. of latex paint and 3 oz. of clear medium (1 oz. Floetrol and 2 oz. water-based poly). While the presenter never said such in the video the poly he used was "satin" and not a high gloss.

No offense, but I don't consider a spray gun manufacturer's recommendation to mix water-based poly with latex paint to thin it enough to spray as being "proof" it is truly a good thing to do. It just means it won't hurt the gun.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:02 PM   #19
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post
Thanks for the video link kctyphoon, I now remember seeing this before and my jaw dropping in wonderment that a spray gun manufacturer would advise such a thing. His final paint mix consisted of 4 oz. of latex paint and 3 oz. of clear medium (1 oz. Floetrol and 2 oz. water-based poly). While the presenter never said such in the video the poly he used was "satin" and not a high gloss.

No offense, but I don't consider a spray gun manufacturer's recommendation to mix water-based poly with latex paint to thin it enough to spray as being "proof" it is truly a good thing to do. It just means it won't hurt the gun.
I suspect what the presenter was trying to do was bring the sheen back to the latex. 25% mix of Floetrol can affect the sheen of latex paint. Reference Flood Corporation website concerning Floetrol. I personally don't see any issues mixing water based with water products, I did have to smile when he wanted the poly well shaken though. I also don't see any benefits adding poly to good quality latex. Also, despite the fact he was present what looked to me like about a $700 HVLP system, I've sprayed latex with my much cheaper Earlex with about half the concentration of Floetrol and no poly.
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Old 10-06-2010, 10:09 PM   #20
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


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I suspect what the presenter was trying to do was bring the sheen back to the latex. 25% mix of Floetrol can affect the sheen of latex paint. Reference Flood Corporation website concerning Floetrol.
In my very limited experience with Floetrol it dries to a clear, but hazy, flat/matte finish by itself, so if it were added to the maximum recommended limit of 25% of the mix I guess it could decrease the gloss of a latex paint. Rather than adding a water-based satin polyurethane I think I would rather add more of the same paint, but in a higher gloss to compensate for any gloss lost via the Floetrol.

One thing I can say is that Minwax Polycrylic will yellow over time (6 months to a year), but perhaps not to the point where people would notice for normal decorative uses (we tested it in DIY screen mixes).

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I personally don't see any issues mixing water based with water products,
Maybe, maybe not; that is why I posted the question here in hopes that a paint chemist might shed some light on the subject.

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I did have to smile when he wanted the poly well shaken though.
I meant to mention that as well, but forgot. As most here probably know, the flattening agent in many paints and clear finishes is powdered silica. If the container of finish sets for some time the silica can fall to the bottom and must be stirred back into suspension. Just a few shakes of the container like the guy did in the video isn't really enough to reliably do that unless it was stirred properly in the recent past.

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I also don't see any benefits adding poly to good quality latex. Also, despite the fact he was present what looked to me like about a $700 HVLP system, I've sprayed latex with my much cheaper Earlex with about half the concentration of Floetrol and no poly.
Those that I know of that are adding water-based poly to latex paint claim that it helps roll the paint without leaving roller marks. While that may be so (but I have my doubts) there is a better way to achieve that; using Floetrol comes to mind.

I would have to watch the video again to be sure, but I think the system used sells for $449.00 which is too rich for my blood. If I was going to buy a turbine HVLP system I think I would go with the inexpensive Earlex. It has nozzles and needles made from metal instead of plastic and they can be had in a number of different sizes for spraying different materials.

I have sprayed latex paints through my cheap Harbor Freight compressor-powered HVLP gun with no problem, but I did thin them with between 20% and 30% distilled water. I want to rapidly point out that this was not for "normal" painting (like interior walls or furniture), but to make DIY front projection screens.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:22 AM   #21
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Quote:
Originally Posted by kctyphoon View Post
one of the main things i hate about fourms, is that people always try to pass off "opinion" as "fact". i stumbled across this thread and had to join just to comment. i was looking for an answer to the same question.

i have no idea how old this thread is - but concerning the question on if you can mix water based poly with laytex paint - apparently you can - quite easliy and with good results. as a matter of fact, the company " Turbine Products" makes a turbine sprayer that can be used to spray latex paint that is thinned out. now guess what they are using to help thin it out??? they even have a "how-to" video on youtube showing exactly how they want customers to thin out latex paint before using it in their sprayer. they use a mix of - conditioner - and WATER BASED POLY to thin out the latex paint before being sprayed in their sprayer. here is the address to the video - see for yourself -

if you give someone advice - please know what you are talking about. what you "think" doesnt justify it as "fact"
We are very lucky to have an expert like you who has the experience of 1 watched Youtube video to teach us both about paint chemistry and forum etiquette. Thank you sensei!
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:33 AM   #22
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Quote:
Originally Posted by kctyphoon View Post
one of the main things i hate about fourms, is that people always try to pass off "opinion" as "fact". i stumbled across this thread and had to join just to comment. i was looking for an answer to the same question.

i have no idea how old this thread is - but concerning the question on if you can mix water based poly with laytex paint - apparently you can - quite easliy and with good results. as a matter of fact, the company " Turbine Products" makes a turbine sprayer that can be used to spray latex paint that is thinned out. now guess what they are using to help thin it out??? they even have a "how-to" video on youtube showing exactly how they want customers to thin out latex paint before using it in their sprayer. they use a mix of - conditioner - and WATER BASED POLY to thin out the latex paint before being sprayed in their sprayer. here is the address to the video - see for yourself -

if you give someone advice - please know what you are talking about. what you "think" doesnt justify it as "fact"
I have been selling paint and applying it for fourteen years, I DO KNOw what I am talking about. Obviously, it is you that people should be careful of. I have meet SEVERAL chemists in my lifetime, and all the newer, higher quality acrylics are NOT TO BE MESSED WITH!!! I even asked if P&L accolade can be thinned with a paint conditioner added, and the chemist said all that he recommended was to add 5% water (6 ounces)!!!! If the product is not URETHANE FORTIFIED, THEN DO NOT ADD AN ACRYLIC URETHANE TO IT!!! BUY an acrylic urethane coating. There's a reason why these chemists are hired in the first place, and paid good money to come up with good products!
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:09 PM   #23
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


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If the product is not URETHANE FORTIFIED, THEN DO NOT ADD AN ACRYLIC URETHANE TO IT!!! BUY an acrylic urethane coating. There's a reason why these chemists are hired in the first place, and paid good money to come up with good products!
Most excellent point! This leads to another question that while being a bit off-topic for this thread is related to it. If the mods or admins think this question should be in a new thread please delete this post and I will repost as a new thread.

Question: is it safe to mix different brands of latex paint together? If not, what happens?
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:17 PM   #24
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


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Most excellent point! This leads to another question that while being a bit off-topic for this thread is related to it. If the mods or admins think this question should be in a new thread please delete this post and I will repost as a new thread.

Question: is it safe to mix different brands of latex paint together? If not, what happens?
If it's the same type of product, sure. For instance, if you had one gallon of Pratt and Lambert Accolade exterior eggshell and mixed that with Ben Moore Aura exterior low lustre, then it would be no problem and just fine. But ON THE OTHER HAND, if you had Pratt and Lambert Accolade Exterior Eggshell and mixed it with a cheap paint like Glidden's Evermore exterior satin, you're wasting your money by mixing a high quality paint like Accolade with junk like Glidden. Just like if a junkie mixed peruvian blue cocaine with dirty crystal meth. get the point?
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:33 AM   #25
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Yep, got the point; but that brings up the "quality" of latex paints which is another mystery to me. What makes P&L and BM so much better than Glidden and Behr? I know it's the quality of ingredients, but just what does that mean?
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Old 10-10-2010, 05:00 AM   #26
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


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Yep, got the point; but that brings up the "quality" of latex paints which is another mystery to me. What makes P&L and BM so much better than Glidden and Behr? I know it's the quality of ingredients, but just what does that mean?
Better paints, like P&L and BM's higher quality lines, have better resins, more solids, and better binders in the paint itself, along with higher quality colorants. They are willing to spend more money for the better ingredients. If you try, say, P&L Accolade paint against behr's ultra premium, you'll notice how much better a paint, like accolade is.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:34 PM   #27
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


I came across this thread some time ago and since that time I have added water based poly to latex paint. these mixtures have been applied to children's furniture cabinetry and signs for the most part. I have mixed Ben Moore with Minwax polycrylic, verathane floor finish, zinsser floor finish and oil modified minwax polyurethane. I have also used Sherwin Williams duration , Martin Senour ,and even Valspar (the economy stuff from Lowes).
So far I have mixed 1 part poly to 4 parts paint as well as 1 part paint to 4 parts poly. thinned with 10% water and 1.5 oz Floetrol per quart for spraying.
So far I have found this method to produce a ridiculously hard and durable finish. Especially when using the floor finishes. using the Ben Moore Cottonballs white with the verathane poly after 1 weeks time you can hardly even machine sand it off.
I have a design studio in Charleston South Carolina. What led me to ultimately try this was needing very bright and vibrant colors that were already latex paint colors. it was becoming tedious to color match these in the solvent based lacquers that we traditionally have been using.
I have personally used this method on over 220 pieces since first reading this thread with great success. The only thing I cannot offer is several years wait time to see how these finishes have held up.

I thought it prudent to come back and add my experience just the same. For the next person like myself that may read this thread, I hope this helps. Good day.

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Old 08-01-2012, 11:41 PM   #28
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


*****************************

I tried to post a pic for an example but I guess it was not permitted. I also forgot to mention that the poly mixture lays down on Machined MDF without any prep to seal it up before hand. This is true for the ultra light MDF as well but it requires a few more coats. Hope this is helpful.

Last edited by carpecanic; 08-05-2012 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:52 PM   #29
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


I just wanted to add my own 2 cents to this conversation. I am currently experimenting with this technique as well. I shoot with HVLP. I'm just done applying 2 coats of Target Coatings EM9000 gloss poly mixed with 40% EM6500 lacquer. This mix shoots and levels like a dream. It cures quite quickly as well. It sands beautifully. The only thing I find lacking is hide, since obviously there is only 40% color added. I plan on trying a 1:1 mix next and see how well that shoots.

It appears to me that those who discourage this practice haven't tried it and rely on second hand information to pass judgement. It's quite easy to try it yourself, which is what I've done. So far the results are good. And I'm quite glad to hear that other people have had success as well. To me that sounds like a 100% success rate for those who've actually tried it.

Also, in the car painting world, it is not uncommon to see 1 stage paint made by mixing base with clear coat. I know those are specifically tested to be compatible together, but I don't understand the reluctance from some of the posters. It looks to me like a case of "I ain't seen it before so it must be bad".

Last edited by dm1337; 07-13-2014 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:57 PM   #30
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


I happily and perhaps ignorantly mixed latex paint into water-based poly - 1 part latex with 8 parts poly - for a whitewashed pine beadboard ceiling. Ignorant of the chemistry, so just tried it to make sure it would dry without tackiness and get the look I was after. Still looks great after about 15 years. I'm about to do it again to give a certain rubbed, tumbled sheen to a faux stone floor in my basement. We'll see how that holds up. Maybe I'll post again in 15 years, Lord willing!

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