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Old 07-14-2008, 12:02 AM   #1
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


HI, hope someone can help me. i was told some time back that you can mix polyurethane's into latex paint and have the item painted and sealed for a nice hard suffice all in one job.. is this true? our son wants his bedroom floor painted with gray porch paint but at 12 we want to make sure it has a good hard finish that will hold up to the traffic and abuse that kids dish out. If it can be done with polyurethane or varnish how many parts of paint to the other should be used?... thanks
squiggles


Last edited by squiggles; 07-14-2008 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:36 AM   #2
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


No
Don't do that
Do not mix urethane into your paint

As for applying urethane over porch paint, trust me, a quality porch paint is way harder than polyurethane, or polyurethane mixed into paint
After all, it's meant to be walked on, right?

Also:
It seems there is a lot of misconception about putting urethane over paint for like cabinets and railings and such making it more durable
I'd like to take the time to mention here it's simply not true
The proper coating alone will be much more durable than a urethane over coating
The only time a urethane coating makes sense is over bare or stained wood

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Old 07-14-2008, 10:18 AM   #3
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Squiggles:

You can not mix an alkyd based polyurethane (like a polyurethane hardwood floor finish) into a latex paint. You'll simply ruin both products. Latex paints form films through a completely different process than oil based products, and mixing them together simply won't result in anything good.

For a durable floor paint, you want to go with an alkyd or polyurethane floor paint. That is, an oil based floor paint, not a latex "Porch & Floor Enamel". The latter are just not hard enough to provide good service on a floor.

Essentially, the only difference between a polyurethane hardwood floor finish and a polyurethane floor paint is that the paint has pigments in it to give it colour and opacity. Both will dry to an equally hard finish.

You could also use an alkyd floor paint, and top coat with a polyurethane hardwood floor finish.

All "oil based" products, whether they be drying oils like linseed oil or Tung oil, or alkyd paints or polyurethane paints and varnishes all cure through a process called "auto-oxidation" whereby oxygen from the air is absorbed into the oil film and cross links all of the unsaturated sites together causing the oil film to turn into a hard solid. Consequently, if you do use an alkyd based floor paint instead of a polyurethane floor paint, you could paint over the alkyd with a polyurethane hardwood floor finish for extra durability. As long as you paint over that alkyd with the polyurethane within 24 hours (and I would do it as soon as you can walk on the alkyd paint) you should get good crosslinking between the two coats for excellent adhesion of the polyurethane to the alkyd floor paint. Similarily, you can also paint over a polyurethane floor paint with a polyurethane hardwood floor finish to make for a thicker film, and therefore a more durable coating on your floor. The important thing is to apply each coat within 24 hours (and preferably less) of the previous coat to ensure good crosslinking betwee coats so that they all stick well to each other.

Basically, polyurethane resins are really nothing more than alkyd resins with urethane groups inside them. If you want to know more about the chemistry of making alkyd resins, and the chemistry of modifying that process to produce polyurethane resins, post again.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 07-14-2008 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:30 PM   #4
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Nestor_Kelebay, slickshift,
Thank you both for your help. One reason i asked it just didn't sound right to me. So glad i asked for help first. Going to go get a better paint for his floor. Thanks for stopping me from making a huge mess and the added expensive you save us.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:30 PM   #5
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


No problem, Squiggles.

You're not likely going to get a more durable paint in a "user friendly" format than an alkyd based polyurethane floor paint. Even an alkyd floor paint should provide good service on a floor.

There are much more durable floor paints, but they're much less user friendly, like two component epoxy floor paints and moisture cure or two component isocyanate based polyurethane coatings. The epoxy is probably the more user friendly of the bunch.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:05 AM   #6
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


new wrinkle.. son thinks he wants camouflage painted on floor now, guess there is some more thinking to do.
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Old 07-16-2008, 06:12 AM   #7
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Just remember when he out grows his wants you have to refinish or carpet the floor.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:22 PM   #8
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Lol.....kewl on the camo floor



Actually, that wouldn't be that hard to do
Pick three (or even two might work OK) colors from the 'camo'
Using latex paint, base color the floor
Color wash color #1 (latex paint and glaze mix)
He could even help...faux is really fun
Color wash color #2 (latex paint and glaze mix)
Top coat with....in this case, two or more coats acrylic (latex) floor polyurethane

True, the latex poly will not hold up as long as oil poly, but if you keep up on it (re-coat before it splits and lifts), it can last until he's long grown out of it

Just be sure to practice on some test subjects first
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:18 PM   #9
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


thanks for the information... we are looking forward to painting the floor. Son said oh rats i will have to sleep on couch for days.. he already sleeps on couch most of the time .. so no complaints there. but now hubby wants to wait till school starts before we start on his room. but i will take pic when done and post it if i can figure out how. Squiggles
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:26 PM   #10
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


I recently painted my floors (the house I moved into had painted floors in bad shape) with a porch and floor latex paint and used a water-based polyurethane. It was fairly easy and so far so good.
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:25 PM   #11
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Please forgive me for bringing up an old thread here, but I do have a similar question; is there any reason not to mix water-based polyurethane (Minwax Polycrylic Satin) with latex house paint or artist acrylic paints? All these paints are 'water-based', but coming from a woodworking background it just doesn't seem right to mix poly and latex. BTW, the reason to add the Satin Polycrylic to the latex paint is to supposedly give the mix more gloss and to make it level out better when rolled on a wall than the latex paint alone. These mixes are to be used as a DIY screen for a front projector.

A second, but related, question is would adding a water-based artist arylic 'clear medium' to latex paint cause any foreseeable problems? I would guess not, but I would like to check with those on this forum that know about paint chemistry and such.

Last edited by Harpmaker; 09-30-2010 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:09 PM   #12
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


you can only mix polyurethane with stains. water with water, oil with oil. NEVER MIX IT INTO PAINTS THOUGH!!!!
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:18 PM   #13
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerheart14 View Post
you can only mix polyurethane with stains. water with water, oil with oil. NEVER MIX IT INTO PAINTS THOUGH!!!!
Thank you for the quick reply, but can you be more specific why not to mix water-based poly with regular latex paint, both being water-based?
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:03 PM   #14
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


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Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post
Thank you for the quick reply, but can you be more specific why not to mix water-based poly with regular latex paint, both being water-based?
just because two products are water based, doesn't mean you can mix them together!!! you cant mix primer with paint. two different chemical compisitions. poly is meant as a clear finish over wood, paint is made as a solid skin, so to speak. besides, why not just use a semi gloss or gloss paint. enamel paints will have the hardness of poly and their shine too.
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:32 PM   #15
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mixing polyurethane/clear coat sealers into paint??


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Originally Posted by hammerheart14 View Post
just because two products are water based, doesn't mean you can mix them together!!! you cant mix primer with paint. two different chemical compisitions. poly is meant as a clear finish over wood, paint is made as a solid skin, so to speak. besides, why not just use a semi gloss or gloss paint. enamel paints will have the hardness of poly and their shine too.
Again thank you for the reply. There is a popular DIY Screen forum that advocates mixing gray flat latex paint and satin water-based poly (up to 30% poly by volume!) to get a mix that has more gloss than the flat latex alone, but less gloss than a satin, or perhaps even eggshell, gray latex. Also they believe they can control the gloss of the mix by varying the amount of poly added. While people seem to be doing this without problems it always struck me as being the wrong thing to do. As you say, poly and paint, even if both are water-based, are different compositions. Thank you for verifying that I was not thinking amiss.

If there are any paint chemists on the forum, I would like to know more about what happens when different water-based "finishes" are combined. I see that Nestor_Kelebay hasn't been on this forum for almost a year... nuts; it sounds like he might have been able to enlighten me in this respect.

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