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petersteel 11-13-2011 05:28 AM

making crimson red paint cover
 
i have a crimson red paint that i am painting on a newly finished drywall , but it is not covering, if i put some black paint in it would that help it to cover?

oh'mike 11-13-2011 05:56 AM

What primer did you use?

What brand paint?

After priming---two coats will be needed with a high quality paint when you are using deep tints.

A poor quality paint like Valspar may take three of four coats to cover----Mike---

jsheridan 11-13-2011 08:14 AM

Welcome Peter, if you put some black in it, you wouldn't have a crimson red, would you? As Mike asked, what product are you using? Some deep base colors are, contrary to common sense, poor at coverage. It has to do with the base the color is mixed in, as the quantity of tint required forbids adding other ingredients that help other colors cover better, in a very simplistic explanation. My suggestion to you would be to go to Benjamin Moore and ask them to match the color in one of their products that will cover with that color in two coats. It will be a more significant cost to you materials wise, but will be less costly in the long run. A higher cost material that requires only two coats is far more economical than a lower cost material that requires four coats. Not ony will it require twice the material to do four coats, but it will be twice the labor, and labor is always your largest cost. In this case, lower cost material bought on price is penny wise and pound foolish. Good luck.
Joe

tcleve4911 11-13-2011 08:18 AM

My paint store guy gives me gray primer when I need to paint with red

user1007 11-13-2011 08:52 AM

Grey will help. Tinting a white primer with 40-50 percent of the formula will two. I do hope you primed with something. And you are using a 3/8 to 1/2 nap roller cover right?

chrisn 11-13-2011 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdsester (Post 770011)
Grey will help. Tinting a white primer with 40-50 percent of the formula will two. I do hope you primed with something. And you are using a 3/8 to 1/2 nap roller cover right?

Wanna bet?? Wanne bet it is a paint and primer in one??? Wanna bet on what brand????:whistling2::laughing:

jsheridan 11-13-2011 09:10 AM

Gray primers under deep base colors are not all they're cracked up to be, especially when new technology allows for deep reds to cover in two. I did a door a few years back with a deep cranberry color, and I used a gray primer whose formula was computer generated, supposedly, according to the formula of the cranberry color. It was still a four finish coat job, and I would have liked a fifth for perfection. Also, having the white/light color under the two coats of red would, IMO, make the red brighter. I did a pretty extensive sample years ago using black as a base under a deep red, I think called roasted pepper. I took a section of primed sheetrock and coated half of it with flat black. I applied four or five coats of roasted pepper, until the coverage was acceptable over the white portion. You could see a distinct difference between the two halves in the color appearance. The white portion was brighter and the black portion looked muddied. So, even with 4-5 coats of finish, the black was still influencing the appearance of the final color. I took it into the paint stores to show, and the paint store guys, who told me they don't know why you can't use black as a base, found out why, and so did I. I'm an old school guy, and stick to many of the old ways, but with advances in color technology I'm on board. Just a thought.

Matthewt1970 11-13-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 770021)
Gray primers under deep base colors are not all they're cracked up to be, especially when new technology allows for deep reds to cover in two. I did a door a few years back with a deep cranberry color, and I used a gray primer whose formula was computer generated, supposedly, according to the formula of the cranberry color. It was still a four finish coat job, and I would have liked a fifth for perfection. Also, having the white/light color under the two coats of red would, IMO, make the red brighter. I did a pretty extensive sample years ago using black as a base under a deep red, I think called roasted pepper. I took a section of primed sheetrock and coated half of it with flat black. I applied four or five coats of roasted pepper, until the coverage was acceptable over the white portion. You could see a distinct difference between the two halves in the color appearance. The white portion was brighter and the black portion looked muddied. So, even with 4-5 coats of finish, the black was still influencing the appearance of the final color. I took it into the paint stores to show, and the paint store guys, who told me they don't know why you can't use black as a base, found out why, and so did I. I'm an old school guy, and stick to many of the old ways, but with advances in color technology I'm on board. Just a thought.

This seems to be true lately. We just don't see the coverage broblems we used to with Reds.

Gymschu 11-13-2011 09:38 AM

I see alot of bad comments about Valspar's red on this thread. It covers in 2 coats, any SW red takes 3, 4, or even 5 coats. I don't know WHY that is, but that has been my experience. I cringe every time a customer wants a red kitchen or dining room. Ugh.

user1007 11-13-2011 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymschu (Post 770042)
I see alot of bad comments about Valspar's red on this thread. It covers in 2 coats, any SW red takes 3, 4, or even 5 coats. I don't know WHY that is, but that has been my experience. I cringe every time a customer wants a red kitchen or dining room. Ugh.

Valspar is essentially to Lowe's what BEHRly paint is to HD.

jsheridan 11-13-2011 06:04 PM

I just remembered an exterior trim job I did some years ago with a deep base MAB color, think Jamestown Red. Beautiful color. The store gave me a primer for base and I rolled. I get to the job, open the primer, and it's bubble gum pink. I did a bunch of windows and started with some red, and it wasn't covering at all. I threw the primer in the truck and next day was passing my trusted guy's store, same company. He laughed when he saw it. He added some tint which turned it to a rusty, brownish orange. Covered like a dream, some guys would have been one and done. The homeowner caught me the next day to make sure I was okay, after the bubble gum pink windows. He was in a hurry to get them covered, not that there's anything wrong with that, lol.

RBaxter 11-13-2011 06:06 PM

Hi Peter,
Reds are extremely difficult to cover. Like yellows they are almost transparent, and need several coats of paint. Unless you are using a high quality paint like Benjamin Moore's Aura or paint company that guarantees a product for coverage in a specific number of coats. I have seen people do up to 7 coats of paint for a red! Usually a tinted primer works best, if you are priming, but adding back to you paint will only "muddy" it and change the color.

Faron79 11-14-2011 01:34 AM

I don't let people out the door if I'm mixing the "Red/wine" kinda colors....without a Grey primer!! We normally use a Battleship-type Gray primer. We've got a few gray-shades we like to use, depending on the final color.
My fave gray-primer shade is HK=24 into a C2 primer like C2-One, or one of the drywall primers.

If someone is using a "Citrus"-type color that's real bright, we haul out the deep-base primers, and do ~75% formula.

I normally don't advise using a ton of colorant into even deep/neutral-base colors for the primer. There's SO much colorant added that the primer film can take too long to dry.

We sell a lot of "Reds" and deep colors.
We "coach" the Homeowners about good techniques/equipment.

COMPLAINTS?!?!?
None that I can think of...!

Faron

jsheridan 11-14-2011 04:13 AM

Is this colorant technology that allows for two coat reds pretty much exclusive to BM?

user1007 11-14-2011 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 770757)
Is this colorant technology that allows for two coat reds pretty much exclusive to BM?

Ben Moore invented the whole colorant technology now used by everybody. I remember the old days of carrying tint bottles and doing things on site. They do spend a lot of money enhancing what they started. Like paint, tints come in different prices and quality in terms of density, how finely the pigments are ground etc. Ben Moore and Sherwin Williams win again in this regard.

I think as you mentioned, a major factor is how well the factory blended bases are suspended and how readily they accept the tints.


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