Latex Stain On Top Of Duron Maxwood Oil/acrylic Stain? - Painting - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


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Old 09-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #1
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


Hi all, we have a old house with vertical wood siding that was stained in Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic solid stain 5 years ago. Right now it is showing its age and need to be redone. Duron was bought by Sherwin Williams and is no longer selling Maxwood or any other exterior oil stain.

My contractor is insisting that Woodscapes or Arborcoat latex stain will peel if he applies it on top of the oil/acrylic stain. I have called a number of Duron, BM, and Sherwin Williams stores and have gotten very different answers. Some have told me that it will go on just fine. Some told me I should remove all the stain before using the latex stain.

I've looked everywhere online but found no answer either. Can someone shed some light on this? Honestly if they still sell Maxwood I'd just stick with that.

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Old 09-15-2012, 05:42 PM   #2
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


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Originally Posted by farmery View Post
Hi all, we have a old house with vertical wood siding that was stained in Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic solid stain 5 years ago. Right now it is showing its age and need to be redone. Duron was bought by Sherwin Williams and is no longer selling Maxwood or any other exterior oil stain.

My contractor is insisting that Woodscapes or Arborcoat latex stain will peel if he applies it on top of the oil/acrylic stain. I have called a number of Duron, BM, and Sherwin Williams stores and have gotten very different answers. Some have told me that it will go on just fine. Some told me I should remove all the stain before using the latex stain.

I've looked everywhere online but found no answer either. Can someone shed some light on this? Honestly if they still sell Maxwood I'd just stick with that.
This "Maxwood" is actually an oil/acrylic formulation? By that, I'm guessing it's actually a oil modified acrylic (did your tools clean up with soap and water?)? If that's the case (or for that matter, even if it's not the case), you'll have no trouble applying Woodscapes or Arborcoat over the Maxwood. That is as long as the Maxwood is clean, free of chalk, and loose and peeling stain is scraped, or wire-brushed, then blunt edges should be sanded flush with the wood siding. You'll have no problems.

An oil/acrylic formulation is almost always an alkyd (or oil) modified acrylic. That is to say it's an acrylic with a dollop of alkyd blended in to give the product specific characteristics - primarily for better penetration as to bind in loose, or dead wood fiber - or chalk from a previous application. The downside to alkyd (or oil) modification is typical of all alkyds - over time they will turn brittle, they will chalk and fade more than a straight acrylic, and they could actually provide a food source for mildew and algae growth.

I think Woodscapes Solid Cover is a straight acrylic stain, which is actually the best recommendation for your siding now (if you intend to re-stain). Again, providing the surface is clean and reasonably dry. And btw, this recommendation is supported by Sherwin Williams. Read the label, follow package directions and you're good to go.

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Old 09-15-2012, 06:23 PM   #3
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


ric, thanks so much for your response. The can I have for Maxwood says "penetrating oil/acrylic stain in one". On the warning label it says if it gets on skin use water and soap to wash off. For cleaning tools, use soap and water and rinse well with clean water, then rinse with mineral spirit before storing. The component includes:
water
acrylic/alkyd resin
silicate
aliphatic solvents
titanium dioxide
ester alcohol
ethylene glycol

I am a new homeowner so I am not very familiar with different stains. I really rely on the contractor to tell me what I need to do, but in this case because oil stain is being phased out (due to regulation I am told) I just have a feeling that eventually I am going to have to use latex stain. I worry that if he puts on oil stain again I am in a worse situation than the current one. Please offer any opinion you have on the matter. I believe the contractor is trying to do the right thing but his English is not very good and it is hard for us to communicate often.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:45 PM   #4
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


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Originally Posted by farmery View Post
ric, thanks so much for your response. The can I have for Maxwood says "penetrating oil/acrylic stain in one". On the warning label it says if it gets on skin use water and soap to wash off. For cleaning tools, use soap and water and rinse well with clean water, then rinse with mineral spirit before storing. The component includes:
water
acrylic/alkyd resin
silicate
aliphatic solvents
titanium dioxide
ester alcohol
ethylene glycol

I am a new homeowner so I am not very familiar with different stains. I really rely on the contractor to tell me what I need to do, but in this case because oil stain is being phased out (due to regulation I am told) I just have a feeling that eventually I am going to have to use latex stain. I worry that if he puts on oil stain again I am in a worse situation than the current one. Please offer any opinion you have on the matter. I believe the contractor is trying to do the right thing but his English is not very good and it is hard for us to communicate often.
What you have there is more of an acrylic than an oil. As I mentioned in the previous post, this is an acrylic blended with just a little alkyd resin. This technology is not new and it has certain advantages (as mentioned before)... But now that it's starting to show its age, and time to restain, the best recommendation is now to apply a couple coats of solid acrylic stain - you'll enjoy a coating that is longer lasting, more colorfast (fade resistant), more chalk resistant and less likely to harbor algae and mildew growth.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, oils (as we know 'em today) are kind of on the way towards extinction...(sigh)...at least for architectural coatings (house paints, wall paints, etc.). The good news is that latex (acrylics) have made tremendous strides in their application and performance as they relate to oils/alkyds, with many - many advantages. Especially when applied to exterior wood siding! For your specific project, oils and alkyds are (and were) fine - however, today's acrylics have all the advantages of their oil/alkyd counterparts. Good luck to you.

P.S. Your contractor is wrong about Woodscapes - many contractors on this forum swear by it, and as mentioned before, this is the recommended system by SW.

Last edited by ric knows paint; 09-15-2012 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:32 PM   #5
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


I am leaning toward him being wrong. Do I just tell him to use Woodscapes and if it peels I will directly talk to the SW people? That is of course given that he did the prep work well. The stain right now is for the most part in a decent shape. No chipping or peeling, but there are cracks and popped nails and definite fading on the sunny side of the house. We are keeping the same color. I wonder if one coat will be enough.
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:32 AM   #6
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


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Originally Posted by farmery View Post
I am leaning toward him being wrong. Do I just tell him to use Woodscapes and if it peels I will directly talk to the SW people? That is of course given that he did the prep work well. The stain right now is for the most part in a decent shape. No chipping or peeling, but there are cracks and popped nails and definite fading on the sunny side of the house. We are keeping the same color. I wonder if one coat will be enough.
If Woodscapes is what you want to use (and it is a good choice), I'm just wondering why you wouldn't just consider a different painter - one that's a little more knowledgeable with acrylic products? Sherwin can help you with references of good painters in your area...

Given the description of your siding, its sounds like the major prep is simply going to be cleaning it - which would be the same for whatever product you ended up using - 1 coat may be enough, but 2 coats will more than double the life span before having to restain again.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:07 PM   #7
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


The problem is that he has already power washed the siding. We haven't signed any contract. We just have a verbal agreement.

I talked to 5 different contractors. All of them except for him wants to paint a coat of Duration from Sherwin on top of the stain. He was the only one that said a stain is much better. What do you think?
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:45 PM   #8
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


I agree with Ric. Woodscapes Acrylic would be a perfect choice for this and you can tint it to any color in the SW line.

I would be worried about putting Duration directly over the finish on there now without a primer under it to the point I might stomp my feet and insist if that is what you wanted to do. Woodscapes goes on without a primer.

I am a big Benjamin Moore fan too but have never used their comparable product. I used what I think became Woodscapes when SW bought MAB for many years and it is fave among the restoration community from which I moved a couple years ago. If it soaks in or looks thin you just feather on more.

Your contractor sounds like he is just being cautious. If you have checked him out and like him? Just insist on Woodscapes and let him off the hook for guaranteeing the job so long is he does his usual superior job of prepping. Or as Ric suggested, ask the SW dealer for some suggestions.

And talking about oil and acrylic in the same sentence does not help. As Ric explained, what you have is sort of an evolved alkyd/acrylic film. Alkyd is the great equalizer in my opinion and is great to lay on when you are not sure what was on the surface or you are sure it was some sort of oil-based film other than alkyd. It used to be the alkyds only came suspended in oil-based solvents so it became known as an oil finish. Misleading and confusing hugh because it is not. Alkyd fillms are very different than the old oil enamel ones.

I was a purist and worked almost exclusively on antique homes. I would prep the exteriors and painstakingly apply an alkyd primer and then two coats of nice acrylic paint. Until I tried Woodscapes.

Last edited by user1007; 09-18-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:54 PM   #9
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


It sounds like my painter is finally coming around and will put on Woodscapes. I will see him tomorrow afternoon and I will keep you guys updated.

Yeah a lot of the painters just showed up and told me they can do 1 coat of Duration. Didn't bother to determine whether it is a paint or a stain on there right now.

So just put Woodscapes on top once the siding is clean? No need to strip down to the wood or sand or prime? I know stain usually will penetrate the wood. What happens if I put a new layer of stain on top of old stain? Will it just soak in because the current stain is wearing thin anyways?
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:02 PM   #10
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


Woodscapes will go over either raw or new wood. You need to scrape off anything loose, fill in any obvious low spots, nail holes etc. and sand any repairs. Typical prep.

Remember, it is a solid stain product so it is not supposed to absorb into the wood like a semi-transparent or semi-solid stain should. Solid stains are generally used when you want to preserve the surface texture more so than you could with primer and paint.

That said, you may find you need go over those spots that did get stripped down to the wood in the powerwashing process (if it happened) to build up the film surface. No biggy. Here is the spec sheet.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/docu.../035777515686/

Last edited by user1007; 09-18-2012 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #11
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


Is it true solid latex stain such as ben moore arbourcoat,can be applyed over oil based sain?i was told latex can go over oil but do not put oil over latex.if not sure if base coat is oil or latex is it a safe bet to go with latex.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:51 AM   #12
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


I would remove all of the existing stain just to be safe. Then, with a proper sand/buffer, the new latex wood stain will give the wood a more natural, "fresh" feel. Best of luck!
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:49 PM   #13
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


In the end, what we went with is a oil based primer and then 1 coat of duration. They did the power washing beforehand. It's been 6 months now and it is looking good. Hope it will last.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:55 AM   #14
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Latex stain on top of Duron Maxwood oil/acrylic stain?


I agree with everyone here, it seems like you should go with a solid stain for your project. We recently purchased solid stain from Storm System, a new line of exterior finishes. Couldn't be happier with how it came out. Could be a good alternative to Woodscapes, best of luck!

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