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Old 03-12-2011, 06:48 PM   #1
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Latex gets dark


Most of you guys haven't used this paint or never heard it before. The paint I'm using is Tibbetts Paint.

I am using their Exterior latex semi-gloss
PERMANOX SEMI-GLOSS ENAMEL 100% ACRYLIC #1200
836 Swiss coffee (white paint)

http://www.tibbettspaint.com/index-2-2-1-04-01.htm

Repainting Fascia, soffit. No primer.

After coming back 1 months, I notice there are yellow brown dark spots everywhere, it looks like mold but its not.



I'm wondering has anyone have a similar case like this?

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Old 03-12-2011, 07:18 PM   #2
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Latex gets dark


Hey Steven,
It may not be the paint rather it may be the wood your applying it to. First, did you prime the wood? If you did, did you prime using oil base primer? I ask because if the wood you are painting may be cedar and if it is what you're seeing is more than likely tannin acid bleeding through. If it is cedar, the only way you can stop that is to prime it using a good quality oil base exterior primer.

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Old 03-12-2011, 08:34 PM   #3
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Latex gets dark


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Originally Posted by spraygunn View Post
Hey Steven,
It may not be the paint rather it may be the wood your applying it to. First, did you prime the wood? If you did, did you prime using oil base primer? I ask because if the wood you are painting may be cedar and if it is what you're seeing is more than likely tannin acid bleeding through. If it is cedar, the only way you can stop that is to prime it using a good quality oil base exterior primer.
Steve,

I was thinking the same thing.
What oil primer do you like to use?

Last edited by StevenH; 03-12-2011 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:09 AM   #4
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Latex gets dark


Unanimous Steve, it's tanin acid burning through the finish. Careful, not all oil primers address tanin acid. Zinsser's cover stain primer specifies to use BIN shellac on knots and streaks, but BIN is only for spot priming exterior, too brittle for temp fluctuations. There are many available, but off the top of my head I know Cabot's Problem Solver Primer is one. Wasn't this visible on the old finish?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:00 AM   #5
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Latex gets dark


Wood Tannins disolve in water, not oil, that's why oil based primer is best for bare wood. It also penetrates better and lasts longer. You can go right back over the bleeding spots with oil based primer.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:25 AM   #6
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Steven,
For years I've used Sherwin-Williams products, not always been thrilled with every product, however they do make a good exterior primer in A-100 oil base. Nothing worse than going through all the effort and then applying a bad primer and seeing it peel in a couple of years.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:58 AM   #7
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Is oil-based paint the only way to go? I have the same issue, but it's on the interior window trim, and I'd rather not use oil-based primer inside. Did that in my old house and didn't like dealing with the fumes. Not a huge deal, since I'm going to be replacing the trim eventually, but an alternative in the short term would be good. Currently, I'm using primer with Kylls in it.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by overlooker View Post
Is oil-based paint the only way to go? I have the same issue, but it's on the interior window trim, and I'd rather not use oil-based primer inside. Did that in my old house and didn't like dealing with the fumes. Not a huge deal, since I'm going to be replacing the trim eventually, but an alternative in the short term would be good. Currently, I'm using primer with Kylls in it.
The true and total solution to tannin bleed is shellac, however, since shellac can not be used as a total primer exterior, but only as a spot primer, some exterior oil primers have been modified to seal tannin. Not all oil primers are sealers for tannin, and not all wood is susceptible to tannin bleed. Tannin will bleed through an oil primer if it's not formulated to seal it. It takes a bit longer than latex, but it will in time. All you have to do is read the label on the can, it will tell, not for sealing knots and tannin bleed, use the appropriate primer, which is a shellac based product. Shellac, btw, does have a water element, the primary vehicle is a combination of shellac and water. To overlooker, buy some Zinsser BIN pigmented shellac and touch up you stains, then coat with latex. Please, this is paint chemistry 101, let's not get into a three page peeing match over how to handle bleeding knots and tannin haze.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:43 AM   #9
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Latex gets dark


Thanks, Joe. I'll give that a try. I have a Marine shop nearby. I'd think they'd carry it there; if not, perhaps some marine-paint product would do it.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:46 AM   #10
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Any paint store, home depot, lowes, hardware store will carry a pigmented shellac primer, even a clear shellac will do. Just ask for shellac primer.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:50 AM   #11
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Thanks again.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:48 PM   #12
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This thread reminded me of a job I did a few years back. It was a full repaint of a victorian in Malvern, PA. The porch roof had been replaced, needing a full prime. You can see from the pic the number of knots, what you can't see is the tanin haze, the general discoloration of the new philadelphia fence ceiling. Since spot prime with shellac would have effectively been a full coat, we used Finnaren & Haley oil based Tannin Fighter Primer, which calls for spot prime followed twenty-four laters with a full prime. We actually applied two full coats with more like about 48 hours between. We then applied two full finish coats BM low luster exterior. All hand brushed. On my first yearly spring check i noticed some knots burning through, the ho's son, a contractor, who wanted the F&H products use, said he noticed them before Christmas. F&H, on the record, told me that something mustn't have been done right. Hardly a complex operation. Off the record the guy, who knows me well, told me that you can't really expect the oil to fight tannin like that, in spite of its name. Solution: Spot prime the burners with shellac and touch-up. It never became a ceiling wide issue, the oil did its job to an extent, but some tannin concentrations are too harsh for oil to block.
Edit: you can see the finish ceiling here http://www.diypaintingguide.org/gall...?g2_itemId=176, I couldn't seem to get it to upload, must be a complex operation.
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Last edited by jsheridan; 03-13-2011 at 01:54 PM.
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