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-   -   Kilz 2 Latex mini report (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/kilz-2-latex-mini-report-19892/)

Plasmech 04-13-2008 11:20 PM

Kilz 2 Latex mini report
 
I've heard so many negative things about Kilz 2 Latex that I decided to do a little experiment. First of all, Kilz 2 Latex applies like a dream. It loads up the brush very nicely, absolutely does not drip, period. Spreads nicely.

I prmied a patch of joint compound. Let it dry 24 hours, then stuck a piece of regular masking tape on it. Presed it in as hard as I could. Let that sit on there a week. Mind you this is not blue painter's tape, this is regular masking tape. Pullet it off. The primer stayed on, no problem. It did not fail.

Is this primer really that bad? It doesn't seem so. Painting over it is also very nice, the paint goes on a LOT better than it does on old (un-re-primed) paint.

slickshift 04-14-2008 09:20 AM

Thanks for the feedback
I appreciate what you've done here
Kilz2 can actually work just fine
Great in fact
But there are a few things you should be aware of
It's not quite so cut and dry
As you are doing your testing, please keep in mind a few things

First off, paints and primers really want to stick
It's their job
Even the "bad" ones will stick most of the time

Then there's the "ideal conditions"
Most paints and primers will (technically) stick under ideal conditions

Then there's the percentages
Even a product with a horrifying 25% failure rate means a 75% non-failure rate

So you certainly could use the "bad" product for years, especially under idea conditions, w/o ever having a problem

However, these points don't take into account a few things
First off, just because it's sticking now doesn't mean it will be sticking a year from now
Then, it's not always used under ideal conditions
Even a 1% failure rate is a problem for a professional painter, though admittedly DIYers may want to take a chance (though I would not even for DIY projects)
And finally, as for the "never had a problem" crowd, you really should add "that I know about"...just because it sticks now, doesn't mean some pro or DIYer isn't going to be cursing you out years from now when the re-paint they just finished starts falling off

Kilz2 is one of those products that (for example) a builder has "been using for years and never had a problem"
That's true
THEY never had a problem
They were long gone when the problems showed up
However, when the paper hanger shows up and tries to hang some wall covering, she's got a problem
...or 3 years later when the painter tries to repaint...he's got a problem
These scenarios would be more common (are more common) to a professional, simply by the shear volume of work they do
But if it keeps cropping up you could see why they would not use and not recommend the product

The percentage of disasters I've been called to fix where Kilz2 being used by the homeowner or previous professional is huge...really huge
Keeping in mind that it's not always provable that the product was the culprit, and the fact that I'll get many calls from potential DIYers that ran into a problem (because of Kilz2) and called a professional...
...and also that if there were no problems on a re-paint, I wouldn't have need to investigate or fix a "successful" Kilz2 application, my data will be skewed towards the problem end
But it's still frightening

You can't even buy Kilz2 at my favorite Paint Store
They don't even carry it because of it's problems

PS. On a side note, but still related, these items I pointed out are the main reasons Consumer Reports paint tests are not particularly helpful
The CR tests are under ideal and repeatable conditions, not real world applications

Rehabber 04-14-2008 10:09 AM

Slick, REALLY well stated!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

sirwired 04-14-2008 08:45 PM

As a side note, I would not think joint compound would present much of an adhesion test for any coating. I thought with drywall, adhesion issues affected "bare board" more than the compound.

I was under the impression that we prime drywall repairs not to enhance adhesion, but to prevent flashing.

SirWired

troubleseeker 04-14-2008 10:03 PM

My beef with latex primers is not that I have had problems with them sticking, but that they are not very good at stain blocking.

DIYtestdummy 04-15-2008 01:41 PM

Reality Show
 
Mostly dry, arid climate, sometimes humid and rainy. I moved in 5 months ago. The "professional painter" hired by the previous owner missed some drywall when priming. Home Depot Speedcote is still sticking to bare drywall, but it looks bad. Killz was recommended to me by the painter himself to cover the "natural tones" in gloss that the previous owner's wife painted, because that's what he used. Killz is falling off in chunks along with Speedcote. Chocolate-brown gloss is bleeding through Killz in places that weren't remodeled. I have a love/hate relationship with painting.

I used stuff that devours graffiti on buildings. Still looks good and the weather has taken a drastic change and will change more as the summer monsoon hits on 110+ degree days. The paint didn't peel off where I left cut-in tape on either. You can't tell between the textured wall and where I globbed patch on to level the crappy warped drywall job. After finishing off most of the interior last week, I hope to not have to do it again for a looooooooong time.

Guinea pig? Sure (note: username). But I usually don't buy junk I see on TV and I could care less what CR has to say. I'm consuming, not them. I own the best-selling compact passenger car since 1977, but I bought it because it works for me, it's extremely dependable, and because my wife wanted "the cute little metal-flake black car." (Remember, I said 110+ degrees?)

I guess my point is you get what you pay for and all that glitters isn't mud. You pay for it doing the grunt work too, but the reward is priceless. It may take getting burned to learn not to put your hand in the fire, but don't go hopping on the bandwagon when the band's name is Right Off and The Burning Bridges.

momtwins 04-25-2008 07:18 PM

Ok so I think I have the problem that has been described above. My builder is long gone and I am trying to paint and what do I get but spots on the walls that are soaking up the paint differently from others. I am assuming it is because they did not skim the walls properly or prime properly.

So what should I do use a primer and if so which one. I have also thought about just going ahead and painting so I can see the spots and then priming but that sounds like alot of work. Will the primer fix the problem.

Thanks!!!

Plasmech 04-25-2008 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtwins (Post 119102)
Ok so I think I have the problem that has been described above. My builder is long gone and I am trying to paint and what do I get but spots on the walls that are soaking up the paint differently from others. I am assuming it is because they did not skim the walls properly or prime properly.

So what should I do use a primer and if so which one. I have also thought about just going ahead and painting so I can see the spots and then priming but that sounds like alot of work. Will the primer fix the problem.

Thanks!!!

S/W PrepRite Pro is great. So great in fact that the manager of the local shop complains that he can never bring enough of the stuff in to keep in on the shevles.

sirwired 04-26-2008 05:11 AM

Go to an actual paint store instead of BigBoxCo, and just ask them which primer they would suggest. Also show them your end color, and they may suggest color-tinting or grey-tinting the primer.

I use S/W PrepRite ProBlock Latex, but every paint store should have an appropriate primer to use.

Also, make sure you are using an appropriate high-quality roller cover. This can help hide the texture differences between drywall and compound. Most here suggest a 3/8" or 1/2" cover. I personally use a Purdy 3/8" White Dove for pretty much everything. Pretty good price for the quality, and available everywhere. While the White Dove's at BigBoxCo are ok, the rest of the covers (including, unfortunately, the normally-good Wooster Brand and the other procducts in the Purdy line) are cheap things you don't want to be a guinea pig with. That means that if you choose something other than a White Dove, get the cover from a paint store.

SirWired

Plasmech 04-26-2008 09:10 AM

I found that applying the PrepRite with a 1/2" nap roller builds the wall's texture right back up and evens it all out. Those smooth joint compound spots go away. It's a thick primer so that helps too.

sirwired 04-26-2008 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plasmech (Post 119209)
I found that applying the PrepRite with a 1/2" nap roller builds the wall's texture right back up and evens it all out. Those smooth joint compound spots go away. It's a thick primer so that helps too.

Oh my, is it thick... I bought a fiver to save a few bucks since I am going through so much of it and I thought my arm was going to fall off stirring that stuff. (I don't have a 1/2" drill, so no power-stir for me.)

SirWired

slickshift 04-27-2008 09:46 PM

It's like painting Elmer's Glue...but it works well

doctortrevor 05-20-2011 10:52 PM

Kilz 2
 
Run as fast as you can from this primer...It peels with tape applied to it!!! I assisted a professional painter on a week end and I forgot to buy the primer in time. We went to buy 50 gallons from homedepot and sprayed it on the walls on 2 of 3 levels in a 9000 square foot home. If you tape over this primer it will peels in chunks from the drywall and taping compound. Applied in ideal temps 50-70 degrees on new materials. Blue, green or cheap white tape peeled the primer by it self or paint from the roof when cutting edges in with another color paint. Peeled after 5 days of cure time. Save yourself the time and disaster. Buy a quality product from a reputable paint dealer. I am redoing the drywall in a 9000 square foot home with 1/4 drywall to cover this crap and start over. Who would like to join me in a class action law suit to sue this company and get this crap off the market?

mustangmike3789 05-21-2011 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctortrevor (Post 651840)
Run as fast as you can from this primer...It peels with tape applied to it!!! I assisted a professional painter on a week end and I forgot to buy the primer in time. We went to buy 50 gallons from homedepot and sprayed it on the walls on 2 of 3 levels in a 9000 square foot home. If you tape over this primer it will peels in chunks from the drywall and taping compound. Applied in ideal temps 50-70 degrees on new materials. Blue, green or cheap white tape peeled the primer by it self or paint from the roof when cutting edges in with another color paint. Peeled after 5 days of cure time. Save yourself the time and disaster. Buy a quality product from a reputable paint dealer. I am redoing the drywall in a 9000 square foot home with 1/4 drywall to cover this crap and start over. Who would like to join me in a class action law suit to sue this company and get this crap off the market?

im not trying to defend kilz but did spray or spray and back roll.

Matthewt1970 05-21-2011 05:10 AM

It's good for drywall :)


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