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Old 12-07-2006, 11:32 PM   #16
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This all depends on the quality you're looking for. I can't judge the GC from here, but your post reflects the way it usually happens. GC gets involved with one job and takes the painting and anything else he can do.
If he doesn't recognize the need for a solvent based primer and good paint, it reflects how the job as a whole will be done.

Without regard for price, the painter shows that knows what he's talking about. Price is the same ballpark as the other painter. That may just be the pricing in your area.

If he's willing to take over after you remove the paper, I'd let him.
As far as paper removal, maybe you can find someone to just remove the paper, or sweat equity if you are able to.


Floors, same thing, you want good quality get a floor refinisher. GC's and floor installers can do the job, but aren't pro's at refinishing. Sanding floors is a skill unto itself and finishing floors is a skill unto itself.

I'm sure some will disagree, but many is the time a GC or installer did the floors and proudly announced how good they look, while I see the flaws all over.

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Old 12-08-2006, 08:25 AM   #17
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I think I might just skip the GC...try to get some more quotes...and get professional painter and floor guy..
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Old 12-08-2006, 02:12 PM   #18
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I agree with joe. The first guy was way high for not fixing the walls. Kilz is not the primer you want on 80+ year old plaster, and DO NOT be surprised if the wallpaper removal is a major pain. My family owned a 7 bedroom house over 120 years old (in beautiful shape) in Ohio. I removed over 7 layers of wallpaper from some rooms in that house over completely bare plaster. It had hardwood floors throughout the house and I wouldn't trust those to just anyone.

The latest painter you talked to seemed more reasonable than the rest. Use professionals that know what they are doing for each specific task because it WILL show in the finished results.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:46 PM   #19
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I had another painter give me quote today...he quoted $3500 for paint and 1K to 1.5K for wallpaper removal.

he said he would use bm paint and primer. He also told me that I Kilz shouldnt be used as it was an oil based primer which he said wasnt the best thing to use on plaster. he said he will is waterbased primer.

I kinda played with wallpaper today.. it seemed to come off cleanly but looks like in some rooms they put a skim layer over another layer wallpaper..shoud i remove all the wallpaper before they put the pprimer ...or it is safe to use primer on this....in one room the plaster under the wallpaper has some design..the painter said it will show through the paint...should i leave it like that ?
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:27 AM   #20
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If AA hadn't of said that solvent kilz isn't for plaster, I wouldn't believe it. What is good for plaster? And I still think that there is some paint on the plaster, meaning, that the kilz wouldn't be on bare plater.

I'd advise taking off all the wall paper, although again, you may be able to get away with some that's been painted in the past.

My monitor died and I only came in to check this thread. I won't be back until I get a new monitor.

AA or slickshift will take over, I hope . And I hope AA will explain about the kilz.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joewho View Post
If AA hadn't of said that solvent kilz isn't for plaster, I wouldn't believe it. What is good for plaster? And I still think that there is some paint on the plaster, meaning, that the kilz wouldn't be on bare plater.

I'd advise taking off all the wall paper, although again, you may be able to get away with some that's been painted in the past.

My monitor died and I only came in to check this thread. I won't be back until I get a new monitor.

AA or slickshift will take over, I hope . And I hope AA will explain about the kilz.
So far I have heard conflicting comments about using Kilz which apparantly is an oil based primer. Some have suggested me that I should only use water based primers and others to the contrary.

One of the painters I talked to told me that he can provide 3 year warranty only if he used Benjamin Moore primer(water based) with their paint. Warranty is actually provided by BM itself and will be void if non-Bm product is used.
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Old 12-10-2006, 10:35 AM   #22
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Kilz primer was designed as a oil based stain blocker and should be used for this purpose only like water stains, ink stains and so on and should have two coats. Ben moore has a primer for crack filling areas and a fantastic product called Fresh Start. The big secret here is to use the right product in the right situation. Now if I was to under take this project this is what I would do and have been doing it for many many years.
Remove Wallpaper and clean walls.
Poll sand all wall surphaces with 120 grit and where there is a pattern in the plaster sand down to smoth and de dust walls.
Do all the crack filling and caulking.
Sand the fillers with 120 grit paper and de dust.
Spot prime with Ben Moore primer designed for this purpose and where there is water, ink or any bad stained area's apply two coats Kilz and sand in between coats .
Apply one coat of Ben Moore Fresh Start on everything then pole sand with 100 grit paper and de dust.
Apply Two coats of mid line to top line Ben Moore.
By going with this plan you will have a fantastic paint job that would last for a very very long time.
So when your getting quotes you want a written explanation on exactly what there going to do and what products there going to use so you can compare them with the other quotes and make sure you look at a couple of previous jobs that are at least a year old.
Hope this helps.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:21 AM   #23
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Thanks. Thats a very helpful post. Can you recommend some "midline to topline Ben Moore products, please.

I did get written quotes alongwith description of the job although they are not as descriptive as your post. Most of them said they will sand , apply one coat of primer and two coats of the paint. One of them actually said , he will put a skim layer in addition to above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylh View Post
Kilz primer was designed as a oil based stain blocker and should be used for this purpose only like water stains, ink stains and so on and should have two coats. Ben moore has a primer for crack filling areas and a fantastic product called Fresh Start. The big secret here is to use the right product in the right situation. Now if I was to under take this project this is what I would do and have been doing it for many many years.
Remove Wallpaper and clean walls.
Poll sand all wall surphaces with 120 grit and where there is a pattern in the plaster sand down to smoth and de dust walls.
Do all the crack filling and caulking.
Sand the fillers with 120 grit paper and de dust.
Spot prime with Ben Moore primer designed for this purpose and where there is water, ink or any bad stained area's apply two coats Kilz and sand in between coats .
Apply one coat of Ben Moore Fresh Start on everything then pole sand with 100 grit paper and de dust.
Apply Two coats of mid line to top line Ben Moore.
By going with this plan you will have a fantastic paint job that would last for a very very long time.
So when your getting quotes you want a written explanation on exactly what there going to do and what products there going to use so you can compare them with the other quotes and make sure you look at a couple of previous jobs that are at least a year old.
Hope this helps.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:47 AM   #24
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What would be a fair hourly rate for an experienced painter?
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:59 AM   #25
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"MOORES STYLE is what I use most of the time( mid line) but "MOORES ULTI MAT" ( top line) is a mat finish that helps hide imprefections in the walls and is awsome paint but should not be used in batrooms for these rooms I use COLLECTION SERIES PEARL ( top line ) or MOORES STYLE ( mid line) which is a pearl finish.
As far as hourly rate goes it depends on your area and how many on the crew.
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Old 12-10-2006, 08:35 PM   #26
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Ok...i have one more question....

My house needs a lot more work than the paint only. I signed the contract with this carpenter who is going to fix the roof. He said he can bring his own painters and basically charge by hour plus 20% commision on materials. Hourly rates are $38 for skilled painter and $28 for semi-skilled painter
I could pretty much do anything I want. Do you think this would be a good approach to do this. Is it going to be cost effective? Are the rates fair?

thanks again for all your help so far
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:09 PM   #27
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Paying by the hour could very well cost you more but it does give you the power to decide what they do, how they do it and what materials they use. Remember you are in control when paying by the hour.The down side is they may not work quite as quickly as they would by the contract but that also can be a good thing. You have to get referrals before agreeing with this. I personaly have worked by the hour and have clearing stated to the customer that you are in controll of what I do and I will steer you in the right direction but it is your money.
I am not sure about the hourly rate but seems kind of high as far as the unskilled rate goes but I am just not sure.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:05 AM   #28
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I'm still perplexed as to why you wouldn't prime plaster with "oil" based products. Kilz isn't oil based exactly. It's solvent based, naptha I think, to aid in drying time. I just saw a BM page that recommended "oil" based primer.

First, I wouldn't know exactly what to use without seeing the walls after the paper is down. Second, we don't know if there is paint on the walls or not. Third, Plaster will undoubtly absorb a lot of moisture during the paper removal, and will need a day or two to dry. This may be the reason AA said not to use it.

There are a lot of good painters out there, and this job shouldn't be difficult for anyone with experience.

That being said, I just want to point out a couple of areas to pay extra attention to. The plaster walls are a concern, not just getting them repaired, but getting them repaired correctly. I'll talk to a plaster man tomorrow. I'm sure he wouldn't repair the wall with anything except plaster. Reason being that the walls are super smooth and almost any patch work is sure to be visible unless you pay extra attention to that area of work. One well known method is to tape a 2x2' piece of plastic on the wall and see how much moisture is condensating.

There is only so much advice we can give without being there. It sure sounds good to use 2x primer. I don't see the need. This project will probably be similar to the one AA described. I started on old houses and remodels. They are tough, but I tend to underbid because i'm used to it. So glad to be past demo that painting seems a joy.

For sure, the guy wanting to give a 3yr. warranty wants to use BM, nothing wrong with wanting to use BM, but a bit misleading. When the paper is down, the decision to use oil or water primer should be made. If I was there, it is possible that I would use 2x latex primer. But again, the smooth texture of plaster will come into play. Go with the flatest sheen you will accept.

Each major paint suppier has their own line of excellent products. Painters use their preferences, and I haven't seen any bad advice on that in this thread.

So it really comes down to what the poster wants to do. I still vote for HO to remove the paper and let the painter who bid 3200 do it. If he's going to skim, which I would recommend if you want smooth walls, it sounds like he has worked with plaster.

Good luck Christy, I don't have much more to add. It has been a pleasure to talk with you.
Joewho

(Tim)

Last edited by joewho; 12-11-2006 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:05 AM   #29
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Thanks Tim. Will keep your advice in mind while I get through this project. Appreciate it much
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:40 PM   #30
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Ok...today, I had a painter( supposed to be good and recommended by a close friend) take look at the house. He said that I should paint the walls over the wallpaper. He said most of the rooms had vinyl wallpaper and was in good condition. He said vinyl wallpaper takes the paint very well and provided good insulation to home.

What you guys think?

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