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Old 04-21-2012, 02:23 PM   #31
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


ooo boy this topic has gone out of control! i can understand if you want 3 stripes on the wall but what you want is not a huge deal. if it were me and my company i'd just do it and hope i'd get some free lunch for the extra little. you go that extra little mile for someone and it will pay off in the future. they'll end up recommending you to their friends and get more work in the future. but also i dont know my own business and maybe thats why haha!

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Old 04-21-2012, 02:43 PM   #32
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


All those colors sound like significant extra work to me. It's not just the washing of the brushes, it's the extra trays, the waiting for the transition points to dry, and the general loss of efficiency. It adds up. Not to say that it is a huge deal. Many companies have a surcharge of $200 - 400 per color (not including paint) - so add that on to the bill and I'd say you are good.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:47 PM   #33
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


[quote=PaintBird;903626]He's finishing the entire basement - that includes the beams, the studs, the electrical work, plumbing for a full bathroom and kitchenette, the insulation, the walls, the paint, the ventilation, installation of cabinets etc. He was even going to do the flooring but Home Depot is cheaper so I'm having them install it. I'm paying him a flat fee of $35k and I'm guessing he will pay his crew and materials $20k-$25k with 10k-15k being his margin.

As you can imagine when he complained about the 6 colors, I was taken aback. I was expecting him to say "No problem" or "How many colors would you like sir?"...[/quote]


That's what he should have said
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:50 PM   #34
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Originally Posted by PaintBird View Post
First, no one expects painters to work for nothing so please don't put words in my mouth.

Second, how much would you charge and please justify where you think the extra effort would be?

Third, how much more would you charge if you were already making 10-15k on the same project?

Fourth, I own a business.

Fifth, the contractor is doing all the work on this project except flooring.

IMO this "contractor" has taken on more than he can handle. Fire him and find somebody else
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:53 PM   #35
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Originally Posted by creeper View Post
Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this
The op said in the very first post that HE would provide the extra paint, so he is not asking for a freebie. He is simply asking this whiner to do his job. SERVICE the customer for crying out loud.
Its your house and if you want 6 colours then 6 colours you should have without complaint. It is not all that hard to add 4 more cut in's as well as walk over to the freakin can of new paint and open the thing...Sheesh

Why then does he not deal with him?

Why come here and complain, fire the guy and move on.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:55 PM   #36
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Originally Posted by Windows View Post
All those colors sound like significant extra work to me. It's not just the washing of the brushes, it's the extra trays, the waiting for the transition points to dry, and the general loss of efficiency. It adds up. Not to say that it is a huge deal. Many companies have a surcharge of $200 - 400 per color (not including paint) - so add that on to the bill and I'd say you are good.

200 * 4 = 800 and 400* 4= $1,600. That's a lot of money for 1,200 sq ft excluding the cost of the paint itself.

But you're the only one who gave a number. Can you justify it?

Let's look at one room scenario with 2 colors. You enter the living room and let's say you have wall A, B, C, D.

Wall B
_______________________
|.................................. |
| ..................................|
|.................................. |
| ..................................|
| A .............................C|
|.................................. |
|.................................. |
________________________

Wall D


2 Color SCENARIO

With 2 colors, we will paint Walls A&C with Color 1 and walls B&D with Color 2.

Challenge:
- You have 4 corners that you have to switch colors.

MULTIPLE COLOR SCENARIO
With 6 colors, we will paint Walls A,B &C with Color 3 and wall D with Color 4.

Challenge:
- You have 2 corners that you have to switch colors as opposed to 4.
- You have to fill 2 trays with Color 3 and Color 4, you just can't use the trays from another room

Does that justify $1,600 of work?

In my opinion, I should ask for a discount with the 6 colors as I take a hit on the paint but I make his job easier.

Last edited by PaintBird; 04-21-2012 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:20 PM   #37
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Originally Posted by chrisn View Post
Why then does he not deal with him?

Why come here and complain, fire the guy and move on.
Once again, I don't agree that he came here to merely complain. More like he's looking for validation in his thought process

Canning the contractor may be a little complicated because he is involved in the bigger project
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:37 PM   #38
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintBird View Post
200 * 4 = 800 and 400* 4= $1,600. That's a lot of money for 1,200 sq ft excluding the cost of the paint itself.

But you're the only one who gave a number. Can you justify it?

Let's look at one room scenario with 2 colors. You enter the living room and let's say you have wall A, B, C, D.

Wall B
_______________________
|.................................. |
| ..................................|
|.................................. |
















| ..................................|
| A .............................C|
|.................................. |
|.................................. |
________________________

Wall D


2 Color SCENARIO

With 2 colors, we will paint Walls A&C with Color 1 and walls B&D with Color 2.

Challenge:
- You have 4 corners that you have to switch colors.

MULTIPLE COLOR SCENARIO
With 6 colors, we will paint Walls A,B &C with Color 3 and wall D with Color 4.

Challenge:
- You have 2 corners that you have to switch colors as opposed to 4.
- You have to fill 2 trays with Color 3 and Color 4, you just can't use the trays from another room

Does that justify $1,600 of work?

In my opinion, I should ask for a discount with the 6 colors as I take a hit on the paint but I make his job easier.
How do you take a hit on the paint? Most contractors don't make anything on materials?
You should ask for a discount?
Why did you hire the contractor if you think he's expensive?
No one here can justify the contractors price, as we are not him and there are not two companies that have the same amount of overhead, indirect cost.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:41 PM   #39
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Originally Posted by creeper View Post
Once again, I don't agree that he came here to merely complain. More like he's looking for validation in his thought process

Canning the contractor may be a little complicated because he is involved in the bigger project

First of all, I'm not planning to can him. He's actually a very nice gentleman and I would like him to work on this. I just didn't understand the reaction I got from him and when I tried to have him explain it to me, he told me to go ask some experts as he couldn't explain to me why there'd be more effort with 6 colors versus 2 colors.

In fact, as we broke this up the conclusion is that using 2 colors is not necessarily faster than using 6 colors. It all depends on HOW you use the 2 colors versus the 6 colors.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:54 PM   #40
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


Paintbird, and creeper, I agree with both of you to an extent. Service the customer. I wouldn't gripe, but I would say that it's going to cost extra. We're not talking several hundreds of dollars, but the amount of extra cost to me is irrelevant, and has zero to do with anything I said. For all I know, your contractor could be griping because you tell him what you tell us, that it makes no difference and no extra money, regardless of the amount, is justified for extra application labor. You've had a couple of professional painters here tell you that more colors equals more money, and more so when you count the two that thanked my post where my point was just that. The original pro(s) who sympathized with you have jumped off your ship.
The point for me is, was, that you as a non-painter come into a painter forum seeking advice and tell the pros that you can't understand or justify something that they do for a living, and that they need to hike up their skirt and lay down, for you. You don't need to understand. Somethings just are, and this is one of them. It's the arrogance that's raising hackles, not the dollar amount, or even the subject matter.
FYI, the further you get from white when cutting in, the more difficult the cut becomes. So yes, blue is more difficult to cut in than off white. When I work with deep base or high contrast colors that I need to cut against white trim and ceilings, I add more time to the job. When you come to an outside corner, let alone an inside corner, where a color changes, you have to wrap the corner with one color and cut in by brush the other color, something that can only be done when the wrap dries, which could hold you up for a couple of hours. If only one color is used, I'm home by that time. LTD hinted that it could add another day to the job, not a whole day but a return trip. Maybe paint one color one day, the other the next. I don't know, so how can you, and I've been at this for a couple of decades. To be done properly, it takes skill and time, multiply that by four cuts by two coats each, and it adds up to way more, by multiples, than the cost of a gallon of gas or milk. That doesn't include the handling of materials or tools. You're very dismissive in your ignorance (I mean in the knowledge sense, not manners, but that could attach as well). I told you to ask the guy for the change order price and accept or decline it, and move on. But you came back seeking reaffirmation of your insistent point.
If you're going to come here and seek advice, respect that which you're given, regardless of the value you place on our knowledge and experience. BTW, I'm glad we could be entertaining to you and your wife.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:05 PM   #41
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Paintbird, and creeper, I agree with both of you to an extent. Service the customer. I wouldn't gripe, but I would say that it's going to cost extra. We're not talking several hundreds of dollars, but the amount of extra cost to me is irrelevant, and has zero to do with anything I said. For all I know, your contractor could be griping because you tell him what you tell us, that it makes no difference and no extra money, regardless of the amount, is justified for extra application labor. You've had a couple of professional painters here tell you that more colors equals more money, and more so when you count the two that thanked my post where my point was just that. The original pro(s) who sympathized with you have jumped off your ship.
The point for me is, was, that you as a non-painter come into a painter forum seeking advice and tell the pros that you can't understand or justify something that they do for a living, and that they need to hike up their skirt and lay down, for you. You don't need to understand. Somethings just are, and this is one of them. It's the arrogance that's raising hackles, not the dollar amount, or even the subject matter.
FYI, the further you get from white when cutting in, the more difficult the cut becomes. So yes, blue is more difficult to cut in than off white. When I work with deep base or high contrast colors that I need to cut against white trim and ceilings, I add more time to the job. When you come to an outside corner, let alone an inside corner, where a color changes, you have to wrap the corner with one color and cut in by brush the other color, something that can only be done when the wrap dries, which could hold you up for a couple of hours. If only one color is used, I'm home by that time. LTD hinted that it could add another day to the job, not a whole day but a return trip. Maybe paint one color one day, the other the next. I don't know, so how can you, and I've been at this for a couple of decades. To be done properly, it takes skill and time, multiply that by four cuts by two coats each, and it adds up to way more, by multiples, than the cost of a gallon of gas or milk. That doesn't include the handling of materials or tools. You're very dismissive in your ignorance (I mean in the knowledge sense, not manners, but that could attach as well). I told you to ask the guy for the change order price and accept or decline it, and move on. But you came back seeking reaffirmation of your insistent point.
If you're going to come here and seek advice, respect that which you're given, regardless of the value you place on our knowledge and experience. BTW, I'm glad we could be entertaining to you and your wife.

A little harsh don't ya think. I didn't detect any arrogance in his quest for info.
Don't mean to be disrespectful, but you sound a tad defensive
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #42
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Originally Posted by creeper View Post
Why is everyone making such a big deal out of this
The op said in the very first post that HE would provide the extra paint, so he is not asking for a freebie. He is simply asking this whiner to do his job. SERVICE the customer for crying out loud.
Its your house and if you want 6 colours then 6 colours you should have without complaint. It is not all that hard to add 4 more cut in's as well as walk over to the freakin can of new paint and open the thing...Sheesh
Creeper, with all due respect, and not being defensive, but, as a realtor, what do you really know about the difference between using two colors and six? Honestly. Have you read the feedback from the pros? They're not supportive of what you think you know. I agree though, service the customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creeper View Post
Once again, I don't agree that he came here to merely complain. More like he's looking for validation in his thought process




Canning the contractor may be a little complicated because he is involved in the bigger project
That's the problem, we're not here to validate his thought process. His thought process is faulty on this subject, and we're trying to correct it, that's why we're here.

My posture is not a defensive one Creeper, it's of impatience. May I come to your realtor forum and tell you why I don't think your sales commission is worth what is paid, after all, don't you just walk people through until someone comes along who wants to buy it. What's that a couple of hours, and a little bit of gas driving back and forth? What's that cost? Would I not be arrogant to tell you and your pro colleagues there that I'm right, in spite of all the facts you lay out that prove me wrong/unknowing? Would you not think I was an a$$wipe? I don't mince my words creeper.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:21 PM   #43
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Creeper, with all due respect, and not being defensive, but, as a realtor, what do you really know about the difference between using two colors and six? Honestly. Have you read the feedback from the pros? They're not supportive of what you think you know. I agree though, service the customer.



That's the problem, we're not here to validate his thought process. His thought process is faulty on this subject, and we're trying to correct it, that's why we're here.

My posture is not a defensive one Creeper, it's of impatience. May I come to your realtor forum and tell you why I don't think your sales commission is worth what is paid, after all, don't you just walk people through until someone comes along who wants to buy it. What's that a couple of hours, and a little bit of gas driving back and forth? What's that cost? Would I not be arrogant to tell you and your pro colleagues there that I'm right, in spite of all the facts you lay out that prove me wrong/unknowing? Would you not think I was an a$$wipe? I don't mince my words creeper.

Apparently you don't at all mince your words.

Since you asked me directly what I know about painting I will tell you. Although I certainly do not claim to have the experience that you do, I do in fact have plenty of it. I actually quite enjoy painting, and so I hope I do not get accused of having a supeior disposition. Not only do I have a pro friend who asks me to help out occasionally for cash, I have painted for clients (who couldn't afford it) in order to ready their home for market as part of my service to them. I also do all my own painting.

Really, you want to compare the responsibilty of preparing legal documents to knowing how to transition 2 colours on a wall? Again not trying to be superior but my license has bound me to fiducary duties that go way beyond a straight edge or how long it took me to wash out a brush.

With all due respect to you sir, not all the pros are in agreement with your stance. Further, why would you think we are not here to validate his thought process. He asked a legit question. He's entittled to a legit answer.
The bottom line is that the op stated early on that he is more than willing to compensate for the extra labour. He holds the cash, he should hold at least enough of the power that he gets what he wants without a condescending attitude.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:21 PM   #44
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


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Creeper, with all due respect, and not being defensive, but, as a realtor, what do you really know about the difference between using two colors and six? Honestly. Have you read the feedback from the pros? They're not supportive of what you think you know. I agree though, service the customer.



That's the problem, we're not here to validate his thought process. His thought process is faulty on this subject, and we're trying to correct it, that's why we're here.

My posture is not a defensive one Creeper, it's of impatience. May I come to your realtor forum and tell you why I don't think your sales commission is worth what is paid, after all, don't you just walk people through until someone comes along who wants to buy it. What's that a couple of hours, and a little bit of gas driving back and forth? What's that cost? Would I not be arrogant to tell you and your pro colleagues there that I'm right, in spite of all the facts you lay out that prove me wrong/unknowing? Would you not think I was an a$$wipe? I don't mince my words creeper.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:22 PM   #45
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How much more difficult is it to use more colors?


Lol! Wrong guy dummy!

That was quick- you caught it!

may the force be with you... peace out

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