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Old 01-17-2013, 07:24 AM   #16
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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Originally Posted by cdaniels View Post
Pull the knife tight against the ceiling.The more excess you can wipe off wet the less you have to sand off dry.
This is basically true but it can be overdone. Taping knives are flexible and if you press hard you're creating a curved surface and defeating the purpose. You need to fill gaps between the flat ceiling and the hump caused by the joint repair, so you want the knife to keep as flat an edge as possible while still pressing the compound flat (but not beyond flat).

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Old 01-17-2013, 12:09 PM   #17
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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Originally Posted by chrisn View Post

You will never end up with a level 5 finish, no matter what method you use and using a roller to apply mud certainly will not work for you. There is no earthly reson for a level 5 finish on a ceiling. You are way over thinking this.
I was thinking applying the thinned out mud with a roller and then scraping it away would be better than sanding and priming. I guess gravity would be the issue? I would like the repairs to be hidden...

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Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post

You don't need a level 5 finish. What you need is to get a level 4 finish not perfect but near perfect. I sometimes apply level 4 with a roller, but that's a different matter. You need to thin the compound a bit to do this, but that doesn't make it a level 5 finish. It's just the 3rd compound layer.

You probably should use a 12" taping knife, but if you have a 10" now that should work.
I thought a level 5 is achieved with water and all purpose mud, with cake batter consistency, applied by roller, scraped off and then sanded. You have me confused.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:01 PM   #18
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
This is basically true but it can be overdone. Taping knives are flexible and if you press hard you're creating a curved surface and defeating the purpose. You need to fill gaps between the flat ceiling and the hump caused by the joint repair, so you want the knife to keep as flat an edge as possible while still pressing the compound flat (but not beyond flat).
Just a correction Jeff on a knife 8" or larger there should already be a curve in it if you look down the blade. That is why I use a flat trowel. If you are not careful whice way the curve is the corners can leave tracks. (It's in Myron's book). And junky no matter you will still need to sand some and prime.

Last edited by ToolSeeker; 01-17-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:37 PM   #19
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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Originally Posted by Adrenalinejunky View Post
I thought a level 5 is achieved with water and all purpose mud, with cake batter consistency, applied by roller, scraped off and then sanded. You have me confused.
It is. You don't need that.

What I'm saying is that Level 4 can also be applied with all purpose compound if it is thinned slightly (not as thin as cake batter). It can still be applied with a roller. Not many people are aware of that but it works well. I'm not sure why chrisn said it "certainly won't work for you", but maybe because he was thinking of a Level 5 finish, when you need to get your Level 4 finish correct before a Level 5 finish would even help, even if you did it.

Level 4 means putting the third layer of joint compound over the joints. Level 5 means putting all over the entire wall, like a thick layer of paint almost.

The third layer of joint compound can't be applied with a paint roller. Myron Ferguson explains this idea in his drywall book.

Last edited by jeffnc; 01-17-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:43 PM   #20
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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Just a correction Jeff on a knife 8" or larger there should already be a curve in it if you look down the blade. That is why I use a flat trowel.
Some knives are flat and some have a slightly curved blade. Some trowels are flat and some have a slightly curved blade. I assume your knife is curved and your trowel is flat, but they're not all like that.

For the knives, it doesn't matter much because they're normally so thin and flexible that a little too much pressure is still going to curve them inward toward the wall, and not fill in the gap very well. Typically trowels are firmer and harder to flatten or curve to the wall.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:48 AM   #21
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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Originally Posted by jeffnc View Post
Some knives are flat and some have a slightly curved blade. Some trowels are flat and some have a slightly curved blade. I assume your knife is curved and your trowel is flat, but they're not all like that.

For the knives, it doesn't matter much because they're normally so thin and flexible that a little too much pressure is still going to curve them inward toward the wall, and not fill in the gap very well. Typically trowels are firmer and harder to flatten or curve to the wall.
Good knives 8" and over have a curve the big box stores usually don't. If it doesn't you should use a piece of pipe or something round to put one in. The reason is like you are saying if the blade is flat and you are putting pressure on it the ends tend to lift. If you put a little curve in it when you put pressure on it it will flatten out against the wall. Trowels you buy either flat or curved.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:51 AM   #22
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heLp! To sand or to paint? Ceiling issues


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The reason is like you are saying if the blade is flat and you are putting pressure on it the ends tend to lift. If you put a little curve in it when you put pressure on it it will flatten out against the wall.
I actually never paid much attention to that. I guess you just learn to put the right amount of pressure on it by experience? Because it seems pretty easy to press right through until it's beyond flat.

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