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dcrider81 11-18-2012 11:02 PM

paint rolling off sanded undercoat
 
1 Attachment(s)
I am by no means a professional, but i can just about figure anything out and perfect myself along the way. Yes, i bought a graco x5. No i dont have any experience with a sprayer. But i did start in my smallest room, unoccupied, to practice. I removed popcorn in favor of a flat ceiling. I sanded and filled any imperfections on ceiling and walls. The lady picked a purple color from clark & kensington. The walls were a beige/tan color originally. I did a 2 foot test run of her color, so she could verify its what she wanted. She liked and i decided to prime everything with kilz. First time with sprayer, all went as well as could be expected for first run with sprayer. I didnt overlap correctly, but the only other problem i had was the primer basically ran from the test spot. I fixed that after it dried, which was horrible due to the runs on the test spot. Oh well... i go for a second coat of kilz. It went better, covered test spot well, got overlap better, but got quite a few heavy spots/runs. I quickly back rolled the walls, which made it good for the most part. I continue to first coat of top coat, again this is clark & kensington. Went ok, had heavy spots/drips again. I didnt see the spots until it was too late to back roll. I let it dry, sanded out bad places, round 2 of top coat. All went well, and i back rolled just as a precaution. It was good enough quality to call the walls done.

I got that handy 3m masker that does the roll plastic. Yeah i know yall are going to say i did it backwards. I resanded the outer portion of the ceiling where the purple overspray was, i dusted the entire ceiling. I am using behr ceiling paint for this. I spray and again im prepared to back roll just so there is no worries of heavy spots or lines. As soon as i rolled the outer portion, the paint just rolled off of where the sanded purple was. Other than that, the ceiling is perfect for me.

Sorry for the long story but wanted you to have the full story. Now tell me what the crap is the deal with the purple doing this twice now? And tell me all the other horrible things i did. Thanks in advance. I have thick skin and take criticism pretty well, so fire away!

dcrider81 11-18-2012 11:05 PM

What you see in the picture, to the left what looks like cracks is unrolled. To the right is where i had rolled and the paint basically rolled off.

chrisn 11-19-2012 03:23 AM

I don't spray but I do now you should always back roll, not wait till you see it running down the wall.
Behr ceiling paint is crap.
The cracking part looks like way too much paint and the purple not enough
I have been painting for almost 30 years and never sprayed because it is to hard to learn to do properly and unless you are doing new construction daily is hardly necessary. By the time you got all that masked off,I could have painted it the traditional way:whistling2:

dcrider81 11-19-2012 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 1055707)
I don't spray but I do now you should always back roll, not wait till you see it running down the wall.
Behr ceiling paint is crap.
The cracking part looks like way too much paint and the purple not enough
I have been painting for almost 30 years and never sprayed because it is to hard to learn to do properly and unless you are doing new construction daily is hardly necessary. By the time you got all that masked off,I could have painted it the traditional way:whistling2:

I didnt think I was going to need to back roll, lesson learned. Hence the reason why I was prepared and did back roll immediately the last coat on the walls and the first top coat on the ceiling.

I have read many people say that about Behr ceiling paint. I plan on changing over to sherwin williams or something from the local ace hardware from here on for everything, if possible.

The paint was slightly heavy all over the ceiling, but inside the sanded purple area turned out fine. The purple area as soon as I rolled on it, the paint just stuck to the roller instead of spreading out. In the picture, is the purple area that I didnt roll to the left and where I did roll to the right. Thats why there is much more purple showing to the right. Something is causing it to not stick, regardless of being heavy or back rolled or not back rolled.

And I understand that many people here go with your philosophy of rolling and cutting is faster. I have my reasons for wanting to learn, and why not broaden my knowledge or know how? I can build a engine, faster than you can figure out what parts go where! That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't learn, if you want to.

chrisn 11-19-2012 04:51 PM

Does the puprple paint have a sheen? That would cuase it not to stick properly( that and lousy paint)

I was not saying that you should not learn how to spray, but was just trying to let you know that is takes years to learn how to do it properly. That is why I gave up trying, many years ago. It was just too time consuming for me.

besides, you said this" I have thick skin and take criticism pretty well, so fire away!"

so I fired:whistling2:

dcrider81 11-19-2012 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 1056241)
Does the puprple paint have a sheen? That would cuase it not to stick properly( that and lousy paint)

I was not saying that you should not learn how to spray, but was just trying to let you know that is takes years to learn how to do it properly. That is why I gave up trying, many years ago. It was just too time consuming for me.

besides, you said this" I have thick skin and take criticism pretty well, so fire away!"

so I fired:whistling2:

Would the sheen matter since i sanded it? I can check and see what sheen it is, but i dont recall from memory. I was kinda thinking yall/pros would say its cheap paint. Clark & kensington from ace. And haha i do have thick skin, call me a moron for trying to learn spray for just this house. I enjoy a good challenge. Im not throwing the towel in, yet...

user1007 11-19-2012 06:22 PM

Basically, IMO, you have used the wrong tool for the job at hand here. I have nothing against your desire to learn to spray interiors but this room, especially with such a rich color, could and should have been better handled with roller and brush. Now you have to sand everything down and maybe even skim coat. You will probably end up finishing with classic tools.

I have nothing against spraying (although I most always subbed it out) if the home is empty and you are doing something like white ceilings and closets in all rooms. Maybe primer coat on all nicely prepped walls in masked off spaces. It is just not very practical for small rooms with color changes to deep hues and high sheens in the same space.

Not to put words in Chrisn's mouth but I think what he is saying is that higher sheen latex/acrylic paints, by nature, tend to skin over relatively quickly and then can take 30 days to cure. In the first minutes of that cycle of drying to the touch the surface can be very sticky and will tend to try and stick to your roller cover unless you backroll almost immediately. This is why most who spray have someone chasing right behind them instantly with the roller. If you wait to spray the whole wall and go back, it is too late. This why even if you roll a wall with high sheen paint you dare not overwork it by going back once the paint is applied.

You can buy yourself a bit of time with an extender added to the paint. I know Floetrol best but other like other brands.

Anyhow, as mentioned, I have not had a lot of reason to spray. I think most painters could have had the room you are working on done in the time it has taken you to mask and try to spray it.

Mr. Paint 11-19-2012 06:28 PM

What you are experiencing is "mud cracking." As ChrisN said, it's because of too thick a coat which, leads to uneven drying. Also, The C&K paint you bought was most likely from Tru-Value. Tru-Value does not manufacture paint. It is private-labeled by the lowest bidder. This brings me to another point: Mud Cracking is more likely in paints that have less resin and more filler pigments.

As you gain experience, you will come to appreciate finer quality paints from reputable manufacturers. Perhaps this is you first lesson...

dcrider81 11-19-2012 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdsester (Post 1056356)
Basically, IMO, you have used the wrong tool for the job at hand here. I have nothing against your desire to learn to spray interiors but this room, especially with such a rich color, could and should have been better handled with roller and brush. Now you have to sand everything down and maybe even skim coat. You will probably end up finishing with classic tools.

I have nothing against spraying (although I most always subbed it out) if the home is empty and you are doing something like white ceilings and closets in all rooms. Maybe primer coat on all nicely prepped walls in masked off spaces. It is just not very practical for small rooms with color changes to deep hues and high sheens in the same space.

Not to put words in Chrisn's mouth but I think what he is saying is that higher sheen latex/acrylic paints, by nature, tend to skin over relatively quickly and then can take 30 days to cure. In the first minutes of that cycle of drying to the touch the surface can be very sticky and will tend to try and stick to your roller cover unless you backroll almost immediately. This is why most who spray have someone chasing right behind them instantly with the roller. If you wait to spray the whole wall and go back, it is too late. This why even if you roll a wall with high sheen paint you dare not overwork it by going back once the paint is applied.

You can buy yourself a bit of time with an extender added to the paint. I know Floetrol best but other like other brands.

Anyhow, as mentioned, I have not had a lot of reason to spray. I think most painters could have had the room you are working on done in the time it has taken you to mask and try to spray it.

I know that i could roll and cut this room faster, but im learning to spray in this room to prepare for spraying my master and living room which are over 2x the size of this room. I knew there would be mistakes and learning curves. Less area to screw up, less area to fix.

Now onto what youre saying about sheen, i know that the white behr ceiling paint is flat. I just verified that the purple is flat enamel, and the hated primer and paint in one. A gallon was free, another lesson learned? I thought the c&k was supposed to be better than behr.

Btw, the walls are satisfactory to me, if thats what youre referring to as "rich".

dcrider81 11-19-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Paint (Post 1056361)
What you are experiencing is "mud cracking." As ChrisN said, it's because of too thick a coat which, leads to uneven drying. Also, The C&K paint you bought was most likely from Tru-Value. Tru-Value does not manufacture paint. It is private-labeled by the lowest bidder. This brings me to another point: Mud Cracking is more likely in paints that have less resin and more filler pigments.

As you gain experience, you will come to appreciate finer quality paints from reputable manufacturers. Perhaps this is you first lesson...

Well moron me thought that c&k was a step up from behr. But are you saying they both suck equally? I do plan for the next paint to be sw or benjamin moore.

chrisn 11-20-2012 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcrider81 (Post 1056387)
Well moron me thought that c&k was a step up from behr. But are you saying they both suck equally? I do plan for the next paint to be sw or benjamin moore.


Well, at least you have learned something:laughing:

dcrider81 11-20-2012 06:16 AM

It is to my understanding that when it comes to ceiling paint, yall use just regular flat paint rather than a titled "ceiling" paint? I noticed yesterday that Ace had a water borne ceiling paint from benjamin moore, thoughts?

I do understand the pay more now, pay less later theory. I would love to support my local Ace, which I do alot of, but I dont see that they carry any benjamin moore in larger than 1 gallon cans. I do have a benjamin moore store and a sw store close by, which would you choose? I would prefer to spend less, but which is best bang for the buck?

Thanks for all the help!

Mr. Paint 11-20-2012 10:12 AM

I will not denegrate anybody's product. That being said, I encourage you to buy from a manufacturer's store or a dealer that is authorized to sell that manufacturer's product. Labels that are unique to companies that have no manufacturing facility are private-labeled by the lowest bidder, which usually meaans that pricing and margins mean more to their corporate board , which supercedes any quality issues.
Remember this:

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low prices is gone."

Windows 11-20-2012 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcrider81 (Post 1055638)
I am by no means a professional, but i can just about figure anything out and perfect myself along the way. Yes, i bought a graco x5. No i dont have any experience with a sprayer. But i did start in my smallest room, unoccupied, to practice. I removed popcorn in favor of a flat ceiling. I sanded and filled any imperfections on ceiling and walls. The lady picked a purple color from clark & kensington. The walls were a beige/tan color originally. I did a 2 foot test run of her color, so she could verify its what she wanted. She liked and i decided to prime everything with kilz. First time with sprayer, all went as well as could be expected for first run with sprayer. I didnt overlap correctly, but the only other problem i had was the primer basically ran from the test spot. I fixed that after it dried, which was horrible due to the runs on the test spot. Oh well... i go for a second coat of kilz. It went better, covered test spot well, got overlap better, but got quite a few heavy spots/runs. I quickly back rolled the walls, which made it good for the most part. I continue to first coat of top coat, again this is clark & kensington. Went ok, had heavy spots/drips again. I didnt see the spots until it was too late to back roll. I let it dry, sanded out bad places, round 2 of top coat. All went well, and i back rolled just as a precaution. It was good enough quality to call the walls done.

I got that handy 3m masker that does the roll plastic. Yeah i know yall are going to say i did it backwards. I resanded the outer portion of the ceiling where the purple overspray was, i dusted the entire ceiling. I am using behr ceiling paint for this. I spray and again im prepared to back roll just so there is no worries of heavy spots or lines. As soon as i rolled the outer portion, the paint just rolled off of where the sanded purple was. Other than that, the ceiling is perfect for me.

Sorry for the long story but wanted you to have the full story. Now tell me what the crap is the deal with the purple doing this twice now? And tell me all the other horrible things i did. Thanks in advance. I have thick skin and take criticism pretty well, so fire away!

There is so much wrong here, I actually thought you were trolling.


I am only going to add: with flat walls and ceilings it is almost always better, faster, neater to use a roller and tray. AND it takes SERIOUS stugots to spray on the interior and not backroll. :eek:

dcrider81 11-20-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows (Post 1056921)
There is so much wrong here, I actually thought you were trolling.


I am only going to add: with flat walls and ceilings it is almost always better, faster, neater to use a roller and tray. AND it takes SERIOUS stugots to spray on the interior and not backroll. :eek:

Thats not much help. I figured out on my own that i have to back roll. Just say no to the roller and tray.... haha


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