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Old 07-03-2012, 12:22 AM   #16
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


I like what I read on the Gardz, but it is a waterbourne primer - have you used it over oil paint? It seems to be the best of the 3 Zinssers for this job, but I am just not sure it is suitable if what is underneath the latex and primer is oil paint. BTW, I tried the 3-4" metal scraper similar to pictured - it removed absolutely nothing. Even though the paint still comes off relatively easily with fingernail scraping. The paint is a 100% acrylic formulation. I thought that was considered good paint....





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Originally Posted by Brushjockey View Post
If it is peeling then you must find the way to get it off. Use a variety of tools and see what works. Sometimes the amount of flex, or the sharpness of a particular scraper might make all the difference. Hot water sprayed on to make rubbery- same idea as the heat gun, etc. Find its week spot and exploit.
I just saw the scraper that you showed. that is the wrong type for this- you want a straight flex 3 or 4 " scraper. that's what Id try anyway.



Some "Experts" are more expert than others. I wont argue the coverstain, I know it will work. I also know alot about Gardz because i have used it in many situations. But i don't need to prove that here.
I do say that the 123 is not the choice for here.
If your paint is very rubbery- it is not the right paint. When you get to recoat time, consider a better product.

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Old 07-03-2012, 12:55 AM   #17
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


Ok let's backup here. Latex paint reaches it's full cure in about 3 weeks depending on temperature and humidity. Curing means it reaches it's maximum hardness, resistance to water, scrubbability among other things. Dry time and recoat time are different. Most latex primers on the market can be topcoated after 4 hours @ 77 degrees and 50% Relative humidity (these parameters are always the standard in the paint world) And most latex paints can be re-coated in 4 to 6 hours. So you can prime and paint all in one day.

You need time to let your paint cure because here's most likely what has happened. Little to no prep of an oilbased, glossy paint that your contractors spot primed with a latex low cost sealer. You then waited 5 days then painted the surface and probably applied your paint in 2 thick coats and didn't wait long enough for the 1st coat of paint to dry. When you were applying your second coat the first was still tacky (sticky to the touch) then you waited. What then happened is the paint needs to dry from the inside out but you trapped in moisture because the prior coat of paint was never dry. The paint is rubbery and has little to no adhesion to the surface because the moisture in between the layers of the paint.

So now you have 2 choices wait for the paint to dry enough where it starts to harden up and adhere to the sheetrock or try to remove it while it is in the curing cycle.

You can use your bathroom, just make sure when people shower in there that they use the exhaust fan or crack the window to let the moisture escape. Also make sure the bathroom has plenty ventilation to let it completely dry out when not in use.

And yes you can put a latex paint or primer over an oil paint or primer. Make sure the surface is always clean, dull (sand glossy surfaces then clean sanding dust off surface) and dry...

do not put any primer (oil-based, water-based, alcoholbased - no matter what the brand) over a rubbery paint. You will just seal in the moisture even more and it will take even longer for the paint to dry and cure...

let it dry and cure or remove it...
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:11 AM   #18
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


Thanks a lot for your helpful response and educating me on your vast knowledge of painting, Phil. I think what you described as what most likely happened, is what most likely happened. I did apply the first coat on the pretty thick side. I waited a day to recoat and I recall touching the latex before recoating, to see how sticky it was. I can't say that it was not at all sticky at that point, because if I pressed hard enough with my fingers, I could feel a slight touch of stickiness. Although I waited much longer than the required 4-6 hours to recoat, as I have now learned, you are better to go by "feel" than by directions on the can.

Trying to remove the paint now before it is cured is looking like a nightmare to me. Forced removal could take as long as waiting for it to cure would take, and I have a high chance of damaging the drywall (or myself, from what I've been reading of chemical strippers). So the way to deal with this is starting to look a lot clearer to me now: Painting over the portion that I pulled off (after sanding the edges of the torn paint with fine grit sandpaper), then (patiently!) waiting 5-21(?) days for it to fully cure. And NO priming over what I have painted, until the blue latex is fully cured.

I think the only thing I'm not quite clear on yet is what kind of primer that I should eventually use. I would like to try Zinsser Gardz or maybe Bullseye 123, but they are both water-based primers. I'm getting mixed opinions on this, but I was told by my paint manufacturer that assuming the walls were originally oil paint, I should only use an oil based primer (ie. CoverStain). However, it will be going over the two coats of cured latex paint, so does it still matter on the choice of new primer, if there was oil paint underneath the latex and old primer?

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Originally Posted by Cpcphil View Post
Ok let's backup here. Latex paint reaches it's full cure in about 3 weeks depending on temperature and humidity. Curing means it reaches it's maximum hardness, resistance to water, scrubbability among other things. Dry time and recoat time are different. Most latex primers on the market can be topcoated after 4 hours @ 77 degrees and 50% Relative humidity (these parameters are always the standard in the paint world) And most latex paints can be re-coated in 4 to 6 hours. So you can prime and paint all in one day.

You need time to let your paint cure because here's most likely what has happened. Little to no prep of an oilbased, glossy paint that your contractors spot primed with a latex low cost sealer. You then waited 5 days then painted the surface and probably applied your paint in 2 thick coats and didn't wait long enough for the 1st coat of paint to dry. When you were applying your second coat the first was still tacky (sticky to the touch) then you waited. What then happened is the paint needs to dry from the inside out but you trapped in moisture because the prior coat of paint was never dry. The paint is rubbery and has little to no adhesion to the surface because the moisture in between the layers of the paint.

So now you have 2 choices wait for the paint to dry enough where it starts to harden up and adhere to the sheetrock or try to remove it while it is in the curing cycle.

You can use your bathroom, just make sure when people shower in there that they use the exhaust fan or crack the window to let the moisture escape. Also make sure the bathroom has plenty ventilation to let it completely dry out when not in use.

And yes you can put a latex paint or primer over an oil paint or primer. Make sure the surface is always clean, dull (sand glossy surfaces then clean sanding dust off surface) and dry...

do not put any primer (oil-based, water-based, alcoholbased - no matter what the brand) over a rubbery paint. You will just seal in the moisture even more and it will take even longer for the paint to dry and cure...

let it dry and cure or remove it...

Last edited by Morris C.; 07-03-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:35 AM   #19
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


I would just spot prime bare areas with a high quality water-based primer. No need to prime over the painted surface that is adhering well to the wall after it has a chance to cure. You will need to sand and feather out the edges were the paint has peeled so the is no obvious ridge.

The issue is not if you have enough paint on the wall, it's getting whats on the wall to stick. I really see no advantage of re-priming over the blue as long as it has time to cure, has good adhesion to the surface and looks good.

As far as specific products I will not mention any ( just make sure whatever you choose it is of high quality ) also make sure that the areas you do prime over are clean, dull and dry.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #20
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


Shearing paint off of the wall after two days indicates that the product was not allowed to cure sufficiently. There may be contamination on the underside preventing good adhesion. Hopefully, ventilation was adequate to provide proper curing. The low VOC formulations today dry to touch quickly, but cure slowly.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:29 PM   #21
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


Gardz is not what you want to prime over oil with.
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Old 12-15-2012, 04:05 PM   #22
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Help! Latex Paint peeling off the walls!


The exact same thing happened to me! It peels off in sheets. I noticed that paint underneath was dirty/glossy and not prepped. I thought it was oil based at first but tried the rubbing alcohol swipe on the paint and the color came off onto the rag on both layers of paint. So I assume both paints are Latex. As far as getting the old peeling paint off the walls...I did notice that when I touched the walls they were wet and after taking a shower the paint comes off easy with just a scrapper. What I did was remove the top layer using the steam from my shower then allowed the bathroom to dry for a couple days. I then sanded the walls and wiped them down before applying a primer and paint. No problems now.

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