help choosing paint brands

KCnorthernCA

Wait. I think we're finally getting somewhere! Thanks for the expanded comments, Slick.

First, I must clarify that I'm not even offering my own opinion here on paints. I don't know crap. I don't have an opinion except what I learn from others. I neither like nor dislike Behr just from using it. I only know that a neutral third party recommended it. Same for BenMoore. And LO AND BEHOLD, Behr works just fine!

In fact, that's why I'm here reading the advice of others (and sharing some of my own experiences -- hey, isn't that what these forums are all about?).

And Paintguy26, I'm not mocking you or anybody else. If you read my words for only what they say, I'm merely asking with curiosity what exactly is it about Behr that's so crappy while other brands are so better. You never explained it. Nor did most others. Just putting forth your "since I'm a pro, my personal pick must be gold" is less than crap. Anybody can say that. At the same time I'm trying not to be offended by your "despising" of people who mention CR.

Now, Slick has described some criteria in choosing paint:
- cost
- matching chip sample
- fast drying

- maintains a wet edge
- smoothness
- even sheen
- easy touch-up

- adhesion
- coverage
- workability
- durability ("resistance to abrasion")
- fade resistance

His first three are assigned to the criteria of "novice DIYers." Next four he says are more professional. Last five are supposed to be the real deal.

But Slick tries too hard to show respect for CU and their CR publication while at the same time disdaining their "scientific method." Slick, it's not their scientific method that's faulty. I don't rely on CR for their choice of cars. Why? Because they got no style. They got lousy timing. They totally ignore certain aspects like ease of repair, brand loyalties, and many personal "intangibles," which is huge in this image-conscious society. So CR has its place. And cars are complex machines.

Then to say CR doesn't "use professional painters" goes right back to the "I'm a pro, therefore my personal pick must be gold" line of reasoning. I'm not defending CR, but the scientific method, by definition, replicates the actual processes while eliminating personal opinion. Otherwise you put the cart before the horse -- you got your conclusions before you ever test it.

Guess what. I looked it up again. CR's criteria for interior paints are:

- Hiding (coverage)
- Mildew resistance
- Stain resistance
- Scrubbing (durability)
- Smoothness
- Match stated sheen (even sheen)
- Fading
- Price

Apparently they ARE rather thorough! And they're pretty much the same criteria as Slick's! Still, CR being the MOFO's that they are, ignored a few:

- matching chip sample: But that has to do with fading, no?
- fast drying: Depends on relative humidity, no?
- maintains a wet edge: Same problem with the weather, no?
- easy touch-up: Depends on how lazy your are, no?
- adhesion: Depends on surface prep, no?
- workability: What exactly is that? Viscosity? Paint is a simple liquid material. But then, once "installed" the owner has to live with it. The one-time installation process alone, or "workability" should not sway any paying customer one way or another. So is that the bottom line? Pros prefer thicker gooey-er paint? It's certainly not "coverage" because we've already gone over that above.

It seems slick's criteria is essentially the same as that used by CR! Except CR separately tests each criteria regardless of reputation or price. And they separately test exterior paint.

Slick, am I correct that you're a forum moderator? That's why you can "pull this thread over?"

RussellF

I am like Benjamin Moore and always recommend it to customers........sometimes like the job I am at the customers provide the paint for me...... This customer brought in some Pittsburgh paint and I would not recommend it to anyone after what I have experienced. It is a interor latex semi-gloss and(pastel Base 9-510) and I was cutting around a wall and by the time I got back with the roller it was drying.......so it pulled the paint........not much time had passed too.

kellstar painting

Alright.....As a professional painter who paints 7 days a week.. here's my story with behr... I think I've actually used it alot more than most painters.... you see I started my buisness with a Home depot charge card..... I started with new contruction...and used behr for everything
then went outside for exteriors and kept useing it.... i kept litterature in my truck on it at all times... had 5 fan decks (color charts) w/ me always... even know the name of the regional rep of behr in my area... have behr hats...and shirts.... I've been painting on and off for 15 years and I backed up behr with my reputation for a good year... I now only use Ben Moore... California.... Sherwin Williams.... The new thing with paints is the washable flats.... behr just dosent got it down right....the darker the color of behr.. the harder it is to work with... same with Ralph Lauren..(great colors though).. it drags... runs.... it dosen't cover very well... when you roll a wall you have to back brush the spot where you ended your roller.. cuz it will drag down on you...
When you paint every day you notice the things that can make a wall or peice of wood come out great ... and behr is always working against you.. the scrubbability is not like other high end paints.
Now lets talk color... cuz thats what we are really applying here right.
TRUE COLOR is achived when the wall you paint is that color. Not the color of what the wall was mixed with the color that you just put on .
I get into color... how it flows... how its affected by other colors...
the human eye has trouble distinguishing between true color and almost true color...But if your a colorist.... you know... they say true color isn't completely achived unless you prime a room with a primer tinted to the color your useing.. and then applying 2 coats finish over it...(waiting in between)..... otherwise you have to put on many coats.... good paints cut down on the amount of coats it is needed to get true color.... now there's mildew prevention.... retaining color... from many factors such as wear and tear.. sunlight... fadeing.... all of these things are easily done with only 2 coats of good stuff....

Furthermore the people who mix... instruct you.. recomend different sheens..give you advice... are completely incompedent to do so.. it's useually someone who hasn't even painted that mutch before... not to mention that they just got transfered from the electrical department (isle 5) the week before... I stand in line and here there advise and my stomach turns... I use to rescue people .. and help them but it's just too time consuming. homepage_trio.jpg

I'm sorry to go on and on.... but the truth is ..it's just a dream to work with good stuff... the way it flows off a brush.... the way it uniforms itself from cut to roll... it's a pleasure when we use the good stuff.. and it is such a hasle to use bad stuff... in fact thats why we won't .. or if we do.. we charge extra
It's just hard to explain the day to day fealing of applying good paint to someone who doesn't apply it every day.... it's like a pianist explaining ivory keys to plastic ones... it's just in the feal/flow ...
I hoped I helped even a little..

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Paintguy26

Word!

__________________
"The measure of success is not whether you have a tough problem to deal with, but whether it is the same problem you had last year". ~ John Foster Dulles

RussellF

Kell.........you were not painting yesterday that is for sure!!!

slickshift

That's incorrect
Though some overlap, yes



Yes
And that was an attempt at a humorous warning not to post any personal attacks
...which I don't believe any were posted
But as the discussion was getting a bit heated, I thought it time for a reminder

troubleseeker

My experience has been just the opposite. Always use Benjamin Moore with good results. Over the years , a few customers have insisted on Behr brand and we had trouble with it every time. This is not prejudice against the big box, just unhappy results.

Recently a customer bought her own paint, store brand from Lowes.After three coats, the painter could not get the shadow out between the cut and the rolled areas.He did not want to even use the paint on the job, because he said it would be problems. Of course I blamed him for not cutting/rolling while edges were wet. Bought more paint, and I stayed on job while they repainted. When it dried, it looked just as crappy.When the owner complained still, I told her that the only way we would repaint was with our own paint. We used the Benjamin Moore, one coat, and everyone was happy.

rjordan392

Hello,
I just like to add that I'll never use Behr paints or stains again. The solid color stain that I use on my deck was hard to apply. It was drying too quick and this may it hard to brush in. It started to flake off after one year. I decided to use Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams the next time. This is what I have seen recommended on the Contractors forum.

tlg

I've just painted my living and dining room with Benjamin Moore paint (pearl finish) and I'm very happy with the way it looks and the way it went on.

The term Benjamin Moore company uses for satin is "pearl." It is a nice finish -not glossy, but still reflects light and feels good. I don't care for flat finish - It seems to suck light away, collect dirt/handprints, and feel rough. It's good for ceilings and walls with many flaws to hide.

I also like that BM has small sample paints in jars for purchase so you can get an idea of how the color looks on the wall before choosing. In our town there's a specialty BM paint store and you can buy (refundable if you bring them back) 18 inch squares of color to take home and view in the light of the room you will be painting.

Yes- It looks like I'm a fan!

saggdevil

Uh-oh....I just painted my kitchen and hall with Kilz paint and primer. They both seemed to go on well, nice smooth and thick. Will the color last for me? I have three four large rooms to go and not sure whether to use the same paint after reading some comments. Should I use the SW? Is there really that much difference to offset the additional 15-20 dollars?

Blane

I started to read this as I wanted to know the best paint for laminate kitchen cabinets. I have wasted a lot of time on "bargain" paint painting bedrooms and living spaces. "Melamine" paint is recommended but I want a high gloss finish. I've considered whether or not I need to prime if I use the melamine paint. Not sure yet. Also, If I first prime with BIN alkyd can I then use any enamel? In one instance a high gloss Marine paint was recommended.

hammerheart14

ANY higher end enamel paint would work. I would recommend Pratt and Lambert Accolade Semi Gloss. That's a hard, durable finish. You could also use an acrylic industrial gloss enamel as well.

http://www.prattandlambert.com/pdf/p...heets/4100.pdf

breakitnmakeit

I just painted my whole house with Behr from Home Depot. One coat and it looked beautiful. There were a few thin spots we had to go over with the paintbrush once it dried, but that was probably because we painted it on thin.

I would recommend Behr to anyone.

I would NOT recommend Valspar, or anything you get at Wal*Mart.

hammerheart14

Behr is mediocre paint. As a paint salesman for 14 years and a on and off again painter, there is much better paint out there to use for the same price. Their resins, binders, and solids are low quality, the open time is too short, brushibility sucks, coverage is bad, and, last but not least, you are supporting the guys who drive out the honest paint stores striving to make a living.

racebum

just a thought. with SW pro mar 200 going for roughly the same price as behr, why would someone even consider it? the cost argument is gone, so, why?

from the little behr ive used its been inconsistent between gallons. one gallon went on really well, no lines, great cover, the next was very streaky almost like the solids volume was way lower.

SW is no brainer paint, you roll, spray and brush it on, it dries, you go about the rest of your day. no babysitting it to turn out decent.