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Old 09-24-2006, 07:54 PM   #16
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help choosing paint brands


1st off....Pratt and Lambert is good for new construction..love it for ceilings ...but doesn't stand up to ben moore or sw..or california.

Interior primer?.....just over paint? on walls with no problems latex all the way...if there is water stains or other serious stuff use only oil.

Company's..well every homeowner uses kills.. cuz they are programed to thru advertizing... if you don't beleive me name 5 others?.. we use kills sometimes for certain stains..but if we are a ben moore guy we use ben moore primer....lots of other primers will do the job... geeze even glidden came out with a product called grabber that works well... but i'd say S.W or Ben Moore.

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Old 09-25-2006, 01:52 PM   #17
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Zinnser 1-2-3 is by far the best acrylic primer IMHO. You need to use oil on water stains though.
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:53 PM   #18
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I like the zinnser line of primers better than those from SW, but i won't paint with anything but SW paints. Duration is my absolute favorite and worth the extra $. 1-2-3 is good for relativly minor covers, but for nasty nasty stuff, BIN is unreal! 30 years of nicotine on a white textured ceiling and BIN kicked its ass.
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougrus View Post
Slickshift and other pros, what about a recomendation for water or acrylic based primer for bedrooms, living rooms etc...no moisture exposure interior projects...lets just say over a previous coat of latex paint on drywall...
You almost never need to primer those types of repaints

If, for some reason you did, it would probably be best to take it on a case by case basis
It depends on why you need to prime as to what the best primer for your application would be

If you are using Kilz2 and your painter is groaning, that's because Kilz2 sucks
I'd be concerned about paint failure if it was used
The Original Kilz (oil-based) is the only product from that company that is any good
The rest of the products from that company stink on ice
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:16 PM   #20
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Slickshift,

In my bathroom I used Kilz Premium Interior/Exterior water base primer (it has a gold label Not Kilz 2 but Kilz none the less)
I used Dans Armor mildew/mold resistent drywall and I primed it with this stuff...also on the crown.
Should I be concerned?
The paint looks pretty uniform...I used Ben Moore...Eggshell I think.
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Last edited by dougrus; 09-25-2006 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougrus View Post
...I used Kilz Premium Interior/Exterior water base primer (it has a gold label Not Kilz 2 but Kilz none the less)
....Should I be concerned?
Please keep in mind that I can't/won't use something that fails even a few times out of, say 25 or 50 projects, so generally I won't recommend that something to others
That doesn't mean it won't work fine for some, or even most

I wouldn't worry about it unless it starts to fail
I just really can't recommend it, if you know what I mean
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:36 PM   #22
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I read this post and just have to put in my 2 cents of nonprofessional advice. PRIME PRIME PRIME the walls! What a difference it makes and all kinds of paint will go on easier, more evenly, and look great. I have painted many walls WITHOUT priming, and it really does make a difference in the ease of application of the paint and the final result. It's an extra step but well worth it. So, do good prep work and you will get a good result from a variety of paints. (once I got the "best" brand from Sears and was sadly disappointed and that was the one and only time I ever actually returned a can of paint to the store with a complaint. So, in my experience, the most expensive is not necessarily the best one. At least in this instance it wasn't).................Hm....reread the post and not sure where the beginning is. oh well. u get the idea.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:42 PM   #23
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Understood...Ill keep an eye on it, especially in the 1" or so above the tiled bath surround...
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dferber View Post
I read this post and just have to put in my 2 cents of nonprofessional advice. PRIME PRIME PRIME the walls! What a difference it makes and all kinds of paint will go on easier, more evenly, and look great. I have painted many walls WITHOUT priming, and it really does make a difference in the ease of application of the paint and the final result. It's an extra step but well worth it. So, do good prep work and you will get a good result from a variety of paints. (once I got the "best" brand from Sears and was sadly disappointed and that was the one and only time I ever actually returned a can of paint to the store with a complaint. So, in my experience, the most expensive is not necessarily the best one. At least in this instance it wasn't).................Hm....reread the post and not sure where the beginning is. oh well. u get the idea.

Sorry, but I have to disagree about prime prime prime. If the walls are poorly painted, chipped, damaged, etc, I can understand repriming. However, usually, I won't even fully prime even if I am repairing holes and such -I'll spot prime. If you use a quality paint like SW or BM, priming a perfectly painted wall won't make any difference at all in my opinion. Sherwin Williams Duration goes on JUST as smooth over paint as it does primer and the result is indisguishable. I do however, agree with you 100% on the importance of prep work. Sanding, spackling, etc, etc. Can make or break a paint job.
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Old 09-26-2006, 01:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguy26 View Post
...BEHR IS CRAP hence the place you purchase it is NOT a paint store...
Thanks! It's clear now why Behr is crap!

As for surface prep, I also don't bother with primer IF THERE'S ALREADY OLD PAINT. Cleaning thoroughly, however, is essential. I scrub down with a solution of TSP, then rinse-scrub a couple of times with clean water. That way, nobody can tell the difference between Behr and BenMoore... they'd have to look at my receipts.
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Old 09-26-2006, 08:32 PM   #26
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KC

Say what you will....I am a experienced painter by trade so therefore I know paint and it's quality.....

Last edited by Paintguy26; 09-30-2006 at 10:03 AM. Reason: sensitive folks
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:25 PM   #27
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Don't make me pull this thread over
'Cause if I do I'll turn right around and we'll head right back home


All opinions are valued here, even if they differ from the "conventional wisdom" we are accustomed to

As for paint, and CR, Behr, etc...
Many DIYers have different criteria, and there is paint designed and marketed to them
Things like cost, the wet paint in the can looking like the chip and drying fast
Making the paint perform that way, it doesn't make the paint perform or look better, in fact, it doesn't perform or look good at all
But it address' novice DIY consumer one project concerns

Things like maintaining a wet edge, smooth lay out, even sheen, and easy touch-up rarely enter a one-time, or even part time DIYers criteria
Never mind better adhesion, better coverage, better workability, better resistance to abrasion, and better fade resistance
Those things make a better paint

I enjoy and support the CU and their magazine CR
They are full of interesting information
When they say that certain air filters spew more ozone then clean up the air I listen
When they say the new 28volt cordless drills melt their internals driving lag bolts I take note

They certainly do use the Scientific Method (note caps) for repeatable quantifiable tests and test results

However:
When I am buying a new computer I check the ratings from PC World, not CR
When buying a vehicle, I may see what CR says, but will defer to Car & Driver or Autoweek
When CR does not recommend any hammer drills (none!) because of the noise they make, I basically agree with them
For most Homeowners a hammer drill is not the right tool
But if you are building decks....you are going to need one

My point in regards to CRs paint testing is:

CR does not use professional painters, or professional painting criteria to evaluate paint

They certainly use a Scientific Method of evaluation, but look at the little boxes with the points they use to rate the products
There's maybe one or two testing areas out of seven (going from memory here) that mean anything to a professional painter
....and many other areas that are very important to me that aren't even touched

I find the CR test results interesting
But the reality of the situation is that the paints I find better to work with from a professional standpoint, the DIYer will also find better to work with and nicer looking

I can't even begin to tell you how many DIYer problems show up on these forums that are solved by better tools and better paints

I'm not a pro painter spoiled by over-charging my customers for the good stuff
Trust me, if I could save a few bucks on paint I would
If it was all the same, why wouldn't I?
The fact is, using the cheap paints cost me time and money
The effort to make them look good can double my price for labor only over labor + me supplying the premium paint
.
It can take 3 - 5 coats of Behr to achieve a passable quality paint job
I realized at one point, to make money like on my other paint jobs, that I had to triple my bids that spec'd Behr..and double the amount of paint req'd!
There's no saving money that way

Now, I've had DIYers tell me, "But my labor's free"
Well, no...it's not
The best way can describe it to someone who doesn't value their time is:
If you had the choice to spend all of Saturday, and all of Sunday painting your bathroom, or spend 4 hours on Saturday painting your bathroom and having it look better (yes, we can tell the difference) which would you choose?

If someone's had good luck with Behr, and they want to use it again... God Bless them, carry on and whatnot
However, I can't possibly recommend it

Last edited by slickshift; 09-27-2006 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Added caps on second SM for J187 ;)
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Old 09-27-2006, 01:49 AM   #28
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OK Slick, so if I'm reading this right, you don't like Behr. Is that a fair assessment?

<runs away>
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Old 09-27-2006, 06:28 AM   #29
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Slick
What a nice, detailed way of concluding your view of Behr ....I think we all know how you 'really' feel now

I know I know....I should back off a bit in here- see you guys in the Contractor Talk...
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Old 09-27-2006, 09:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Don't make me pull this thread over
'Cause if I do I'll turn right around and we'll head right back home



They certainly use a scientific method of evaluation, but look at the little boxes with the points they use to rate the product.
Ok, first of all. you don't scare me. With the cost of gas the way it is, I know damn well you aren't turning around and heading all the way home!

Second, I applauded the "use of caps" in the first Scientific Method, but you fell off on the second one?? LOL.



Anyway, here's my story. When I bought my house, the disclosure in the listing said, "needs paint". Which I ignored because I seldom agree with paint schemes in other's houses anyway and I was going to paint probably regardless. When I got there, there were doors and trim which were an older dark stained wood. The owner tried to paint over them with.....da da da...Behr. I can't remember what he said he primed with, I think it was Glidden of some kind? ANyway, of all the doors in the hall, a couple had been painted white with behr - 2 coats according to owner - and one had been primed but not yet painted, another hadn't been touched. The ones painted white w/ behr looked the milk left in a glass after you had dipped 3 or 4 oreo cookies in it! My first experiment was to take the door that he had already primed and hit it with a coat of Sherwin Williams Superpaint Snowbound Satin Sheen. ONE COAT and it covered PERFECTLY. Side by side, the difference was unmeasurable. Good paint like SW or BM ends up costing less anyway after you've used a gallon of Behr vs a quart of the good stuff. A couple months later, at my work they were remodelling and I got a chance to actually apply the Behr they had purchased. I got so frustrated, that I actually offered to go 12 miles on my day off to SW and pick up some paint for them for the other walls. I don't want to mock anyone, I don't want to force my opinion, but If you like Behr paint, or Ralph Lauren for that matter, consider trying something "better" and at least be able to make an objective comparison.


Also, I hope everyone remembers that guys like SLick and ProPainter have no agenda here. They have no self-interest in steering anyone one way or the other. They are offering their "professional" opinions as a curteousy and a service to us. We all have the right to disagree, but we always keep in mind that they probably have all the tools available to make educated comparisons whereas some of us have ONLY painted with Behr or never have. That's why I take opportunities to try as many different things that I can........One of the walls in my house has been drywalled with Durabond, lightweight JC, All purpose JC, Mesh tape, paper tape, etc, etc.


Last edited by J187; 09-27-2006 at 09:40 AM.
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