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Old 04-04-2011, 07:38 AM   #16
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I have a BM across the street from Ace.

Somehow there connected because my purchases at BM get applied to my Ace Rewards Card.

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Old 04-04-2011, 08:34 AM   #17
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With the exception of VERY VERY FEW, all True Value, ACE, and Ben Moore Stores are privately owned. There are a few company stores around but VERY few. Ace and True VAlue are a Co-op, not franchise. Difference being that store owners do not have to pay royalties and the store owners, collectively, own the co-op. So when you shop at a local TV or ACE, the owners really are local and do care about your business. Ben Moore stores are also privately owned, so in most cases you are dealing with an owner or someone who has a vested interest in the business. Many times you will see Ben Moore in a TV or an ACE store - and in many cases the staff there are just as knowledgeable as if you went to a paint store - of course there are always exceptions.

As far as HD or Lowes being local because the employee's are local - I'll give you that to some extent. However, local businesses buy goods and services locally - office supplies, repairs to the business, legal and accouting services, advertising, etc... The big corporations for the most part do not. I read a statistic years ago that said for every dollar spent in a box store, about 6-8 cents goes back into the community, compared with somewhere around 30-40 cents for a small business. Dont' have the exact stat in front of me but I remember it being somewhere around there. The real shame is that more products aren't made locally to help support this country - but that's a whole other topic for a whole other message board =)
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Old 04-08-2011, 02:29 AM   #18
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I use BM because of their services and their paints

I do not use the big box stores for the following reasons:

They should not monopolize the home improvement industry just because of convenience.

The products at BM (as well as other paint stores i'm sure) are far superior to most if not all products at the big box stores

The staff at the paint stores actually know what they are talking about, 99 out of 100 people at box stores do not, and the scary thing is they give advice

The big box stores do not give discounts of any kind to professionals with reputable business's who spend a lot of money in a year on paint, drywall, moldings, what have you. BM and these other places do.

Learn from the pro's, you won't find them buying behr paint at HD, and there is a good reason for it. Well several reasons.

Thanks to the OP for this post, i'm afraid that so many DIY's will buy their paints and whatnot at the big box stores that the real stores will go out of business.
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:39 AM   #19
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Good post ChrisBC. You made some very good points. Especially the one about the associates lack of knowledge at the big boxes. At my local HD they sell service as well as products. The services are subbed out. In order to not lose the service work they put paint guys in flooring, flooring guys in plumbing and on and on. Pretty frustrating when a guy who's installed carpet most of his life is trying to help you decipher what plumbing parts you need to fix a drain.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by chrisBC View Post
Thanks to the OP for this post, i'm afraid that so many DIY's will buy their paints and whatnot at the big box stores that the real stores will go out of business.
We have no fear of being pushed out of business. Does "Starbucks" worry about their because "McDonalds" now has "gourmet coffee"? I think not. If anything the box stores help us. They sell such terrible products, and give the wrong advice constantly, their repeat business is very low as far as paint goes. I have 2 box stores across the street from one of my locations. Im doing just fine
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:14 AM   #21
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Oddly enough, what ChrisBC said is the exact opposite of "the norm" at my local Big Orange Box.

There are long-term Union Plumbers - laid off because of the slow economy - working in the plumbing department. A couple months ago, I talked to a professional flooring man about tile. They have contractors working in the mill-work & materials areas during the slower months.

On the other hand, they have some complete morons working there. Once such moron was thundering around on a forklift last night when I was there. I'm surprised the idiot didn't hurt somebody, or knock down multiple rows of shelving.


The good thing is... It's not that hard to figure out who is knowledgeable and who is a doofus.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:43 AM   #22
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The good thing is... It's not that hard to figure out who is knowledgeable and who is a doofus.
One would think right? Unless you havent a clue what you're doing, and ask someone how to do something, or whats needed, and get bogus info. If you dont already have an idea what you need, you are solely relying on the info being given, and the products being recommended.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:30 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by NCpaint1 View Post
One would think right? Unless you havent a clue what you're doing, and ask someone how to do something, or whats needed, and get bogus info. If you dont already have an idea what you need, you are solely relying on the info being given, and the products being recommended.
That's why people need to visit this forum to ask questions!


By the way, I think you should open a branch store in Omaha. You'd already have at least 1 customer. Just sayin'!
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:01 PM   #24
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Stopped in my local hardware store, again, since you can park right in front and be in and out in 5 minutes. They had what I needed, a 12lb tub of DAP joint compound, and it was under $7. I think they had it priced wrong.

Went to the PPG store this morning. Nice, but more of a shop for pros (they close at 5:00, which I found out when I showed up there yesterday, at 5:20, doh!) I loaded up on everything but paint, most of it Wooster; it's nice to be able to support a local company. My only doubt is about that Wooster Dust Eater I bought. He said it was really effective but I have this nagging feeling I just bought a $19 mop head. We'll see.

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Old 04-08-2011, 09:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by DrHicks View Post
Oddly enough, what ChrisBC said is the exact opposite of "the norm" at my local Big Orange Box.

There are long-term Union Plumbers - laid off because of the slow economy - working in the plumbing department. A couple months ago, I talked to a professional flooring man about tile. They have contractors working in the mill-work & materials areas during the slower months.

On the other hand, they have some complete morons working there. Once such moron was thundering around on a forklift last night when I was there. I'm surprised the idiot didn't hurt somebody, or knock down multiple rows of shelving.


The good thing is... It's not that hard to figure out who is knowledgeable and who is a doofus.
You have a point. I actually find that with the ones in the city, it's hopeless to find someone with a clue. The further out of a city you go, the more they seem to know. The thing is with a lumber yard or paint store your chances are much greater of getting someone who used to work in the trades, etc.

It's just frustrating seeing how much business they get when there are much better products available at the smaller places.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:49 PM   #26
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Very interesting topic

I will be painting my home exterior in a few months and I have been wondering about the paint quality at big blue or big orange. I have a S-W close by so I would like to get opinions from you folks. My home has aluminum siding and I will be taking the time to scrub it down and prep it by hand. After, I will go over it and repair dents, etc. I will be purchasing a airless sprayer for the job. After doing lots of research, I found that it will be better to use an oil-based primer, followed by a 100% acrylic latex paint. I plan on using the top of the line valspar satin from big blue or the top of the line behr satin from big orange. Any opinions or suggestions ? what would the S-W equivalent be?
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cherry_560sel View Post
Very interesting topic

I will be painting my home exterior in a few months and I have been wondering about the paint quality at big blue or big orange. I have a S-W close by so I would like to get opinions from you folks. My home has aluminum siding and I will be taking the time to scrub it down and prep it by hand. After, I will go over it and repair dents, etc. I will be purchasing a airless sprayer for the job. After doing lots of research, I found that it will be better to use an oil-based primer, followed by a 100% acrylic latex paint. I plan on using the top of the line valspar satin from big blue or the top of the line behr satin from big orange. Any opinions or suggestions ? what would the S-W equivalent be?
If I were you - in your location with a nearby SW Store - I'd definitely go that direction. The potential is there to get a much better product at a very competitive price. And the likelihood is you'll be dealing with people who have more knowledge about paint.

Unfortunately, that has NOT been my experience in trying to do business with the SW Store nearest me.


Good luck!
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cherry_560sel View Post
Very interesting topic

I will be painting my home exterior in a few months and I have been wondering about the paint quality at big blue or big orange. I have a S-W close by so I would like to get opinions from you folks. My home has aluminum siding and I will be taking the time to scrub it down and prep it by hand. After, I will go over it and repair dents, etc. I will be purchasing a airless sprayer for the job. After doing lots of research, I found that it will be better to use an oil-based primer, followed by a 100% acrylic latex paint. I plan on using the top of the line valspar satin from big blue or the top of the line behr satin from big orange. Any opinions or suggestions ? what would the S-W equivalent be?
No need for the oil base primer in my opinion. Unless the aluminum has lost enough of the paint film to be all the way down to the bare metal no primer is needed. Two coats of your favorite paint and you're good to go. SW's SuperPaint would be my choice. Why? Because I have used it on aluminum siding for 30 years with NO PAINT FAILURES. The only time I have to repaint is if a customer is tired of the color. Valspar is ok just not as good or as long-lasting as SuperPaint.
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:05 PM   #29
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No need for the oil base primer in my opinion. Unless the aluminum has lost enough of the paint film to be all the way down to the bare metal no primer is needed. Two coats of your favorite paint and you're good to go. SW's SuperPaint would be my choice. Why? Because I have used it on aluminum siding for 30 years with NO PAINT FAILURES. The only time I have to repaint is if a customer is tired of the color. Valspar is ok just not as good or as long-lasting as SuperPaint.
Great recommendation. I would rarely if ever recommend alkyds on aluminum. Data page on super paint allows for direct to aluminum application. If it is recently been factory finished and has a baked on finish like kynar I would do a waterborne adhesion primer like Bond Plex or DTM bonding primer. Otherwise go straight w super paint and enjoy
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:54 AM   #30
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Define local, the big box stores are franchises, and the employees are all local folks.

I know not all are staffed with professionals but the ones in my area by chance are.

Just my 2 cents

Mark
ACE, True Value and DoItBest are franchises and they tend to offer their local employees better than minimum wage AND THEIR FAMILIES health insurance. WalMart, Lowe's, Menard's and HD are all corporate stores. Employees are kept under full time status to reduce healthcare costs which means that the few bucks you are saving end up going into the public health system to pick up the slack via income taxes. This is why people scream when WalMart want to come to town.

And try to get anything back for the community from a corporate box store! The locals still support things like little league teams, park district projects and festivals, and so forth. Try getting a dime for such out of one of the corporate places. I helped a little community in Western Iowa last year who's downtown was near totally killed off by WalMart and the box stores. They needed some paint to spruce up the exteriors of a few buildings. Do you think the box stores donated so much as one quart? SW stepped up to the plate without batting an eyelash! And the worst is everybody gets so starry eyed that these great box stores are coming to town they forget the businesses they will kill off and take jobs away from local business. So, they give them tax incentives so they do not even pay their fair share for police, fire and 911 services.
They are no bargain to a community in the long term.

My Benjamin Moore supplier was within a DoItBest and people were treated like family. Sure it was a little pro oriented in the morning when we were picking up paint for the day but DIYers figured it was a great time to come and get even more advice than the expert staff could offer. Nobody was ignored or rushed along.

MAB (owned by Sherwin Williams) had a store I frequented because I thought their solid acrylic stains and some of their primiers among the best on the planet and it was very pro oriented. Even there though the DIYer was treated with great respect.

Sadly one SW store was a bit snarly even to pros but they eventually cleaned house and fixed the situation.

Of course the bottom line is paint stores still sell decent paint. Box stores sell nothing that compares.


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