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Old 11-30-2011, 05:33 PM   #16
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getting paint to adhere to plaster


Joe, it took me 15 minutes just to read that paragraph

I was just trying to get across that one should probably wear a respirator if painting Bin in a closet.
Probably should have just said that instead of jumping poor Ric, but he will forgive me
I have also been exposed to all that you mentioned with addition of plenty of DDT. Once had to go swimming in a spray tank full of the stuff after the lid fell in. Also as little kids we would chase after the jeep spraying clouds of DDT for mosquito control on the base in Jacksonville.

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Old 11-30-2011, 06:08 PM   #17
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Joe, it took me 15 minutes just to read that paragraph

I was just trying to get across that one should probably wear a respirator if painting Bin in a closet.
Probably should have just said that instead of jumping poor Ric, but he will forgive me
I have also been exposed to all that you mentioned with addition of plenty of DDT. Once had to go swimming in a spray tank full of the stuff after the lid fell in. Also as little kids we would chase after the jeep spraying clouds of DDT for mosquito control on the base in Jacksonville.
"The Mosquito Man", yes, I know him. Grew up around marshy area in suburban Philly, and the MM was a regular fixture of life. We used to follow him on bikes through the neighborhoods. Talk about clouds of noxious gas, you couldn't see five feet in front of you. A friend of mine lost his front teeth on the trunk of a real steel car doing a header over the handle bars in the zero visibility. We did that regularly, all summer long, for quite a few years. And nobody bothered us. I'm ok, you ok? Today we worry and whine about whiffs of second hand smoke, outside, from a distance. How far we've fallen.
PS: I would recognize that smell in a second. Almost can sense it now, some 40 odd years later.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:10 PM   #18
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But your both painters...hmm. Coincidence? I think not!
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:19 PM   #19
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Vinyl Toluene Alkyd (often short-oil),...typically used in fast dry products, shop coat primers, quick dry alkyd stain blockers, etc. Not typically used in higher quality finishes as they really don't penetrate a surface very well, are not known of their UV resistance (fades and chalks quickly), and dry so brittle (similar to lacquer) that, over time and with any surface movement, lose adhesion - especially on slick, smooth surfaces since penetration is limited due to the quick dry time.
Ric, are you rocking my world? I've always been aware that quick drys are not ideal penetrators. I prefer to use long oil on exterior wood in the summer for that very reason. With latex primer, you have all of about two seconds of penetration in summer, and not much more with cover stain. But, are you saying that cover stain is not a good bonder long term? I don't mean on porous substrates, but the ones I use it primarily for, the smooth or otherwise hard to bond to surfaces. I have and do use it as a generic wood primer, but only on a limited basis, and rarely outside.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:31 PM   #20
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But your both painters...hmm. Coincidence? I think not!
I dunno. I graduated in the top ten percent (forty some of four hundred some) of my class from the University of Rochester, no mean feat I'll tells ya. Who knows, had I not had a fondness for DDT as a kid (I think it was actually DDT lite), I may have been valedictorian, but that kind of thinking will make you neurotic. I paint because I want to, not because I have to.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:49 PM   #21
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Ric, are you rocking my world? I've always been aware that quick drys are not ideal penetrators. I prefer to use long oil on exterior wood in the summer for that very reason. With latex primer, you have all of about two seconds of penetration in summer, and not much more with cover stain. But, are you saying that cover stain is not a good bonder long term? I don't mean on porous substrates, but the ones I use it primarily for, the smooth or otherwise hard to bond to surfaces. I have and do use it as a generic wood primer, but only on a limited basis, and rarely outside.
Nope...kinda just the opposite. I've gotta lot of faith in the entire Zinsser program - because their products work. But, no one in the industry would recommend a VT alkyd as a whole house primer, yet Zinsser does with Cover Stain (Cover Stain is listed as a VT Alkyd / Proprietary Resin in their TDS)...That's why I believe Cover Stain is probably an Acrylic modified VT Alkyd. There are other types of modification Zinsser may have used besides a solvent acrylic, but given the fact they recommend it as a whole house primer suggests a flexibility that VT's typically don't exhibit...and an acrylic element would also provide a longer term adhesion to difficult surfaces (such as plaster) that wouldn't be that common with a straight VT.

You're right about short oils and lack of penetration. Most of the oil/alkyd exterior wood primers are medium to long oil alkyds (which allow for much better penetration, and also help to provide at least a modicum of flexibility), but unlike oil/alkyds, acrylics don't require penetration for good adhesion...they simply need the surface to be clean for their best performance. For exterior wood priming, acrylics work great on new, blonde wood - but not so great on weathered wood. Actually, acrylics will adhere very well to weathered wood - but because they don't penetrate, they can't really bind in all that loose, gray, dead wood fiber, so when peeling ultimately occurs, you'll see all that gray fiber on the back of the paint chips (again, the primer adhered to what it was applied to, what it was applied to didn't adhere to the host)...

I hope at least some of that made sense, but I have a knack for making things kind of confusing.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:13 PM   #22
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I like your kind of confusing!
I have learned by - oh - that works ( or not). You give a good explanation of it!
Thanks!
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:59 PM   #23
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I was googling shellac fumes and came across this article. I've used an awful lot of BIN in the past 25 years so I was curious.

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:45 AM   #24
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"The Mosquito Man", yes, I know him. Grew up around marshy area in suburban Philly, and the MM was a regular fixture of life. We used to follow him on bikes through the neighborhoods. Talk about clouds of noxious gas, you couldn't see five feet in front of you. A friend of mine lost his front teeth on the trunk of a real steel car doing a header over the handle bars in the zero visibility. We did that regularly, all summer long, for quite a few years. And nobody bothered us. I'm ok, you ok? Today we worry and whine about whiffs of second hand smoke, outside, from a distance. How far we've fallen.
PS: I would recognize that smell in a second. Almost can sense it now, some 40 odd years later.

Thats debatable( especially for the wife)
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by jsheridan View Post
"The Mosquito Man", yes, I know him. Grew up around marshy area in suburban Philly, and the MM was a regular fixture of life. We used to follow him on bikes through the neighborhoods. Talk about clouds of noxious gas, you couldn't see five feet in front of you. A friend of mine lost his front teeth on the trunk of a real steel car doing a header over the handle bars in the zero visibility. We did that regularly, all summer long, for quite a few years. And nobody bothered us. I'm ok, you ok? Today we worry and whine about whiffs of second hand smoke, outside, from a distance. How far we've fallen.
PS: I would recognize that smell in a second. Almost can sense it now, some 40 odd years later.

Exactly! I cannot believe anyone else did this, I don't feel so alone in the world now

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