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Old 09-18-2010, 01:20 AM   #1
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


Hello,

I just finished painting some new ornate wood trim and awning installed on a window. I used Glidden gripper primer (gray) and Dunn Edwards Evershield paint (dark brown). Both are acrylic products so I wouldn't expect compatibility issues. The window was primed 3 days ago, and painted 2 days ago. I accidentally scratched the paint while trying to fix a bad spot in the glazing, and to my horror both the primer and the paint peeled off. I tried a different spot with the same result: if I scratch the paint it will peel off to the bare wood. If I pull on the piece of primer + paint that started to peel off, I can remove a large chunk in seconds and without any problem. The way it looks, I can probably remove all the paint in a couple of hours and go back to bare wood. The wood was sanded and cleaned prior to applying the primer.

How come? I didn't go cheap on the primer or the paint. Is it because the primer / paint is still too fresh, hasn't cured yet, and better adhesion will come later?

I had a painter use the same primer + paint combination on another 7 windows and 300 sf of wood siding. I picked the products to make sure there was no cutting corners on materials. I am starting to regret it...

Any idea what may have happened?
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:15 AM   #2
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


It takes 30 days to fully cure, give it time.
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:15 PM   #3
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


So it's not unusual?

The guy at the Dunn Edwards store told me the primer was the issue, and that the primer should stick right away (of course the primer is not theirs, so I kind of expected that answer). I just wasn't aware of such a long curing time, and how unstable it is until it cures.

If that's all it is, I should beat myself up for already pulling a bunch of the paint away from the window. I just couldn't believe my eyes and kept on pulling here and there to see if that issue was limited to a certain area (over caulk fro example) or all over.
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Old 09-18-2010, 03:21 PM   #4
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


So it's not unusual?

No

What you used will be fine. There is no paint or primer ( that I know of) that will stand up to the fingernail after a day oy so, let it cure and it will be fine.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:04 PM   #5
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


No offense to ChrisN who is very knowledgeable, and who may very well be right, but if this were my primer I would be worried. I have been using S/W exterior latex Wood Primer on my siding, including many extensive bare areas, and have found that it passes the fingernail test 15 minutes after application, and after a day or two, not even a sharp scraper can separate it from the substate. It is amazing stuff. If it has been a few days and your primer has not adhered to the wood, I doubt it ever will. The paint will cure and get more resilient and in that way it may still form a protective skin around the substrate, and this coating can last for a long time, but it will not bond in the way I think you are expecting it to. Again, these are only my thoughts and experiences.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:41 AM   #6
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


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Originally Posted by paul_l View Post
Hello,

I just finished painting some new ornate wood trim and awning installed on a window. I used Glidden gripper primer (gray) and Dunn Edwards Evershield paint (dark brown). Both are acrylic products so I wouldn't expect compatibility issues. The window was primed 3 days ago, and painted 2 days ago. I accidentally scratched the paint while trying to fix a bad spot in the glazing, and to my horror both the primer and the paint peeled off. I tried a different spot with the same result: if I scratch the paint it will peel off to the bare wood. If I pull on the piece of primer + paint that started to peel off, I can remove a large chunk in seconds and without any problem. The way it looks, I can probably remove all the paint in a couple of hours and go back to bare wood. The wood was sanded and cleaned prior to applying the primer.

How come? I didn't go cheap on the primer or the paint. Is it because the primer / paint is still too fresh, hasn't cured yet, and better adhesion will come later?

I had a painter use the same primer + paint combination on another 7 windows and 300 sf of wood siding. I picked the products to make sure there was no cutting corners on materials. I am starting to regret it...

Any idea what may have happened?
curing could be an issue, BUT always make sure you let the primer dry overnight (as long as it's 50 degrees or above, the gripper is not low temp) then the finish should be applied the next day. if this WAS done, then it's a curing issue, and just give it time to cure. usually a week or so.

and OF COURSE the Dunn Edwards guys are going to blame the primer. They are my main competitor's and are VERY ARROGANT, and I am so sick of their painters who say it's the best paint!! Painters who use DE say this BECAUSE they get a great discount, so they save money when they charge the homeowner regular retail. DE=MOST OVERRATED PAINT EVER!!!!!
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:00 AM   #7
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


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No offense to ChrisN who is very knowledgeable, and who may very well be right, but if this were my primer I would be worried. I have been using S/W exterior latex Wood Primer on my siding, including many extensive bare areas, and have found that it passes the fingernail test 15 minutes after application, and after a day or two, not even a sharp scraper can separate it from the substate. It is amazing stuff. If it has been a few days and your primer has not adhered to the wood, I doubt it ever will. The paint will cure and get more resilient and in that way it may still form a protective skin around the substrate, and this coating can last for a long time, but it will not bond in the way I think you are expecting it to. Again, these are only my thoughts and experiences.

I CALL BULL****!!!! No paint can stand up to a fingernail test after just fifteen minutes of application.
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:21 AM   #8
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


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i call bull****!!!! No paint can stand up to a fingernail test after just fifteen minutes of application.
**** off.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:23 AM   #9
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


children children children.....can't we all just get along =))

I'm not sure about 15 mins - but put a thin coat of 1-2-3 on bare wood and after an hour you would have a hard time scraping it off with your fingernail - after a day it would be VERY difficult!! I would do what ChrisN suggested and wait a few weeks and see if the problem persists. If it does (and I hope for your sake it doesn't), than you know the primer did not do it's job properly. It's normal for the finish to be soft for a few weeks (as chris mentioned), but I dont' like the fact that the primer is coming off either..especially since it dried for a day! Did you sand and not tack cloth or vacuum the wood or do anything that would cause a poor adhesion problem?? I read your post again and noticed that after you sanded you washed or cleaned the wood - what did you clean it with??

Last edited by mazzonetv; 09-20-2010 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:07 PM   #10
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


Glidden is hardly a trusted brand anymore. Some of thier stuff sells for $8 a gallon. The new wood I would have primed with Oil. What is the awning made of?
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:05 PM   #11
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


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Glidden is hardly a trusted brand anymore. Some of thier stuff sells for $8 a gallon. The new wood I would have primed with Oil. What is the awning made of?

True, but their Gripper primer is actually good, probably the best thing they sell.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:12 AM   #12
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


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True, but their Gripper primer is actually good, probably the best thing they sell.
VERY TRUE!! That and the Endurance line. i used to sell bothy. But the rest, pure crap.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:06 AM   #13
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Fresh acrylic primer + paint not sticking


I have to agree with hammerheart14

Primer should should stand up to the finger nail test with in hours depending on what you use and at minimum should be totally sound at 24 hour let alone 3 days. Here is Portland Oregon a regional paint company called Miller Paint and they have a fast dry oil primer that would do the trick it acts much like Zinzer Cover Stain which is sold nation wide. You will have to decide if you are going to wait and see what happens, I might let it go for 30 days which is the average curing cycle for water based paints. If your still unhappy with the performance then I guess its time to start over.

Good luck!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windows View Post
No offense to ChrisN who is very knowledgeable, and who may very well be right, but if this were my primer I would be worried. I have been using S/W exterior latex Wood Primer on my siding, including many extensive bare areas, and have found that it passes the fingernail test 15 minutes after application, and after a day or two, not even a sharp scraper can separate it from the substate. It is amazing stuff. If it has been a few days and your primer has not adhered to the wood, I doubt it ever will. The paint will cure and get more resilient and in that way it may still form a protective skin around the substrate, and this coating can last for a long time, but it will not bond in the way I think you are expecting it to. Again, these are only my thoughts and experiences.
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