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-   -   Four coats (2 Kilz Original AND 2 Zinsser BIN) (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/four-coats-2-kilz-original-2-zinsser-bin-108050/)

Crystal2 06-18-2011 05:45 PM

Four coats (2 Kilz Original AND 2 Zinsser BIN)
 
Hi. One room of my house has cat urine stains and odor right down to the subfloor. I've ripped-out the carpet and pad. I'm replacing the subfloor and drywall wherever possible. For the areas that I can't replace, I'm cleaning and sanding the subfloor. I would then apply two coats of Kilz Original Oil-Based Primer, followed by two coats of Zinsser BIN shellac-based primer, for a total of four coats. I'll then have new carpeting installed over the entire room.

The can of Zinsser BIN says it "may be used under and over any latex or oil-base architectural paint." I think that means I'll be okay, but I'm not absolutely sure.

Can I apply the Zinsser BIN on top of Kilz Original Oil-Based Primer, or might they be incompatible with each other? Would the two products together be prone to bubbling, cracking, or otherwise breaking down? Would a couple days be long enough for the oil-based Kilz to fully dry before putting the shellac on top?

Thank-you to all!

chrisn 06-18-2011 05:53 PM

One, count it, one (1) coat of Bin should be all you need, use 2 if you feel the need, skip the Kilz completely.

Crystal2 06-18-2011 07:01 PM

I should add one thing. I have a reason for proposing that I use both Zinsser BIN and Kilz Original: I fear that on some hot humid day the sealer might soften and release some odor. I need it to be foolproof, even in humidity.

But then again, if one sealer softens I wonder if that might also compromise the other (???) if I used both.

Chrisn -- Thank-you for your input. I'm really bothered by the urine odor, and I appreciate your advice!

Brushjockey 06-18-2011 07:10 PM

Bin will do it. But soak it good. Agree with chris, skip the oil, but if you already have done it, it will be no problem.

Bud Cline 06-18-2011 07:24 PM

Quote:

I fear that on some hot humid day the sealer might soften and release some odor.
You are probably correct about that.

The paints will only try to seal and mask the odor. You would be better off first using an enzyme type dog and cat urine eliminator/cleaner. Pour it on the areas and let it work into the grains eradicating the source of the odor as it drys. The enzymes will literally eat the bacteria that is in cat urine. Then paint over it if that's what you want to do but there wouldn't be any need to paint after the enzymes were used.

You can buy the product at any major pet supply and even some plant nurseries that also deal with pet supplies. The big box stores probably also sell the product.

If you aren't sure exactly where the urine is use a black light to detect the locations to be treated.

White vinegar mixed in warm water will also clean up some urine deposits. It just depends if the cat was actually urinating or simply marking its territory. They are apparently two different types of odor.:)

hammerheart14 06-19-2011 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisn (Post 669546)
One, count it, one (1) coat of Bin should be all you need, use 2 if you feel the need, skip the Kilz completely.

this man speaks truth. HOMEOWNERS TAKE NOTES!!! BIN is superior to KILZ in everywhere as far as stain/smell blocking is concerned. Usually, one coat and you are done. In extreme situations you could use two coats of it. Kilz is much cheaper now than BIN , due to the shellac beetle not producing enough bug juice (that's what shellac is, bug juice mixed with denatured alcohol.)So right now, you can find KILZ for twenty bucks, but BIN is around 50 bucks due to the shortage. But guess what, BIN is worth every penny you pay, cause it does a much better job. If you were to put Kilz over BIN, that would just be a major waste of money.

aandre 06-05-2012 01:45 PM

I've used two coats of the BIN and the smell is still horrific. Now what?

hammerheart14 06-05-2012 02:05 PM

If you still have a smell, you haven't sealed everything off yet. Use one coat of BIN on EVERYTHING that has a smell. If that still doesn't work, you're SOOL, because that's the best smell/stain blocker on the market. You may have to rip it out. Like I said, they even used BIN at the Heaven's Gate house, where the dead bodies were found, and that worked. It seems like to me that you haven't painted ALL the area yet.

hammerheart14 06-05-2012 02:09 PM

P.S. It takes KILZ around one to two weeks to completely dry and harden. With BIN it's overnight MAX. I hope you waited at LEAST A week before you put the BIN over the KILZ. Also, your money and time was wasted with the KILZ. All you need was one, TWO coats of the BIN, max. In the future, when you have a similar problem with stain, smell, just use the BIN by itself, one coat, maybe two on the worst areas. It's a much better product, EVEN IF it's 15 dollars more a gallon than KILZ.

aandre 06-05-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart14 (Post 936940)
If you still have a smell, you haven't sealed everything off yet. Use one coat of BIN on EVERYTHING that has a smell. If that still doesn't work, you're SOOL, because that's the best smell/stain blocker on the market. You may have to rip it out. Like I said, they even used BIN at the Heaven's Gate house, where the dead bodies were found, and that worked. It seems like to me that you haven't painted ALL the area yet.

Thanks. It's a hall and I've coated everything from wall to wall including corners and where floor meets walls. I've even made sure to paint in all directions to jam the BIN in btween all the little particles. I'm stumped. Could there be anything else I,m overlooking?

Brushjockey 06-05-2012 02:16 PM

Aandre - somehow the smell is coming from something not directly sealed by the BIN. maybe in the walls, under the floorboards etc.
Killing bad odor is not an easy task. Have you tried the black light trick?
( I haven't either- but I haven't had that bad of a problem to fix either)

aandre 06-05-2012 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart14 (Post 936940)
If you still have a smell, you haven't sealed everything off yet. Use one coat of BIN on EVERYTHING that has a smell. If that still doesn't work, you're SOOL, because that's the best smell/stain blocker on the market. You may have to rip it out. Like I said, they even used BIN at the Heaven's Gate house, where the dead bodies were found, and that worked. It seems like to me that you haven't painted ALL the area yet.

HELP! 4 Coats of Zinsser BIN and Urine Still Atrocious!

I didn't use the Kilz. I ripped up carpet and padding, removed tack strips, and coated the subflooring (looks like particle board with giant particles) with two coats of Zinsser BIN primer and then two coats of Zinsser Bulls Eye Seal Coat 100% wax-free shellac and when you get down to check the smell, it smells like a fresh urine stain. Ugh. I even made sure to soak cracks (moving brush in all directions to get in between all the "particles") and coated base boards with shellac. Scared to lay down new flooring. I didn't know to try the enzymes before I painted. So that's too late. Struggling single mom who doessn't have the bucks, the know-how, or the strength to repace subflooring. WHAT TO DO?! Thanks for responding.

aandre 06-05-2012 02:32 PM

There are a couple of tiny holes here and there (less than a cemtimeter) where the particle board comes together. I dowsed the seams and tried to jam some BIN through the tiny holes. This is an upstairs room. Pouring enzyme stuff in those holes would ruin the ceiling below, right? And, are you saying that if the urine got under the subflooring I'm screwed because there's no way to coat that. I'm a single mom and replacing the subflooring isn't an option (cost/lack of know-how & physical strength). How is the smell getting around the 4 layers of Zinsser. If you put your nose right on the floor, it smells like its the top of the floor itself that has the smell. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

aandre 06-05-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushjockey (Post 936950)
Aandre - somehow the smell is coming from something not directly sealed by the BIN. maybe in the walls, under the floorboards etc.
Killing bad odor is not an easy task. Have you tried the black light trick?
( I haven't either- but I haven't had that bad of a problem to fix either)

There are a couple of tiny holes here and there (less than a cemtimeter) where the particle board comes together. I dowsed the seams and tried to jam some BIN through the tiny holes. This is an upstairs room. Pouring enzyme stuff in those holes would ruin the ceiling below, right? And, are you saying that if the urine got under the subflooring I'm screwed because there's no way to coat that. I'm a single mom and replacing the subflooring isn't an option (cost/lack of know-how & physical strength). How is the smell getting around the 4 layers of Zinsser. If you put your nose right on the floor, it smells like its the top of the floor itself that has the smell. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

ratherbefishin' 06-05-2012 03:38 PM

aandre, I understand your anxiety, but posting repeatedly in multiple threads won't get better answers. Please stick with one. No offense intended.:)
First, put a fan on your floor at least overnight and let's make sure it's urine you're smelling and not residual fumes from the denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol, the solvent in which the shellac is dissolved, is simply ethanol mixed with a little methanol and a strong odorant to discourage winos and frat boys from drinking it. You might also want to find an extra nose or two in the morning to help identify what you're actually smelling.

If, in fact, it still smells of urine tomorrow, my guess is that the OSB (oriented strand board) was still wet when you applied the shellac. Urine gives off ammonia as the urea decomposes, and ammonia dissolves shellac. Given the number of coats you've used, though, I doubt this is the case.

SealCoat is not designed for this, it's a sanding sealer for woodwork finishing. BIN is the right product. You've only added a little clear shellac over the pigmented.

Be patient, try the fan, and let's take it from there.:wink:


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