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-   -   flat patch spots (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/flat-patch-spots-123251/)

davidhmd 11-12-2011 07:04 PM

flat patch spots
 
I'm a DIYer. My past paint jobs have always had even color coverage, no drips, and I have never noticed any adhesion problems, but the smoothness of the patched areas was often noticeable compared to the slight paint roller texture in the areas that weren't patched.

What's the best way to avoid this?

Home center guy suggested my problem might have occurred b/c I always used the extra smooth Purdy white dove rollers. He suggested Wooster instead to get a little more texture in the applied paint.

Do you concur with that explanation or suspect other issues?

Past job details:
-I often started with dry mix sheetrock joint compound to get faster drying, then switched to the pre-mixed compound.
-thoroughly sanded until everything was smooth and all edges feathered.
-Carefully cleaned dust
-Primed all patched areas before applying 2 top coats

In the past, I typically used Kilz2 primer, and Behr or Valspar premium paints in eggshell finish. I recently read many of the forum posts about paint brands. So, I know there are no fans of Behr here. These are the only 2 brands I have ever used. In the past my only complaints where that patched spots remained flat, and that it didn't hide small imperfections.

Based on forum comments, I won't buy Kilz2 again.
For future interior jobs, is the water-based 123Plus a good primer over new drywall or patched areas?

If my choice of topcoat paint brand is not the likely source of my flat spots or small imperfection problems, then I am tempted to stick with Behr or Valspar. But if BM and SW are better at hiding these smooth spots and small imperfections, then it will be worth it to me to pay more for BM and SW. Behr costs around $29 and BM Regal around $45.

Which BM or SW paints do you usually recommend for relatively neutral colors? Aura costs more than I want too spend.

My next paints jobs are 2 bathrooms. 1 bath is 90% new drywall. 2nd bath has new ceiling and many patched areas.
For the 90% new I am planning to use the 123Plus.
For the 2nd, I am thinking about use the BM fresh start, but since it's twice as much as the 123 I don't want to do that unless it really is the recommended way to mask the differences between the patched and un-patched areas.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Gymschu 11-12-2011 08:47 PM

I've been painting for 35 years & have yet to master the art of hiding fresh patched areas on a wall. It's so hard to do. Often you have plaster walls and you patch with joint compound so obviously your patches will "flash" on the wall. Usually it's not as big of a problem on walls with drywall. You may try a drywall primer on the patches, let dry, and then apply a sealer such as Zinsser's B-I-N over that and THEN your two finish coats, but, I'm guessing you will still notice the patched areas. Anyone else?

Brushjockey 11-12-2011 11:55 PM

There really is 2 problems- Flashing- which is uneven porosity, and texture difference- your patch is smoother than the surrounding area.
To fix the flashing- i try and prime with a primer that is as close to the background sheen as possible. here is one place the the all in one paint can work if it is the same as what is currently on the wall. Otherwise it helps to know your primers. to go to an eggshell or higher sheen requires 2 finish on top of prime.
Then the texture. In critical areas with a bunch of patches i might even give the whole wall a tight skim - looks very smooth all over then.
But to build up the tex just on a patch to blend in - you could use a thick paint and a heavier nap roller- minis work good for this. it is a learned touch-

good luck!

jsheridan 11-13-2011 12:05 AM

Unless you recreate the texture that surrounds the patch to a tee, you'll always see it to one degree or another. The patch and the surrounding wall now have different surface profiles and will reflect light differently. Texture flash is a pia, and something you just have to live with. The best thing you can do to minimize it is keep the sheen low, the higher sheen the worse the flash. Light, sidelight especially, is the enemy here, so sometimes if you adjust your light sources you can also "hide" them a bit. I'm with Gymschu, I've never been able to eliminate them.

jsheridan 11-13-2011 12:19 AM

If, in attempting to duplicate the surrounding texture, you overtexture the patch, the patch will still be different and standout. The texture on an existing wall with no patches is the result of years of painting and repainting, different combinations of nap, paint viscosities, etc, and the likelihood you're going to recreate that is practically zero. If you have a critical wall, it might be, as BJ says, beneficial to skim the whole wall, if you're that bothered by it. With a sheen, what you do to one/two spots, you have to do to the whole wall. I once made the mistake of brushing out a primed patch under eggshell in a bath. Even though I feathered it well and dry, you could still tell the patch had been brushed after two coats of eggshell. The sidelight coming from the window lit it up, right above the toilet. It doesn't take much.

davidhmd 11-13-2011 01:58 AM

Skim coat
 
Thank you all for your help.

I was on a roll with the 123plus for bathroom 1 so I kept going into bath 2.

In bath 2, I definitely see plenty of flashing and texture contrast.
The wooster roller did help to create more texture on the patches, but there is still contrast.

Would priming again with BM Fresh start primer fix anything?

If not, what's the best way to skim coat?

Wide putty knife, roller, ?
Do you just add extra water to pre-mixed sheetrock mud?
What's the target consistency?

chrisn 11-13-2011 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 769888)
If, in attempting to duplicate the surrounding texture, you overtexture the patch, the patch will still be different and standout. The texture on an existing wall with no patches is the result of years of painting and repainting, different combinations of nap, paint viscosities, etc, and the likelihood you're going to recreate that is practically zero. If you have a critical wall, it might be, as BJ says, beneficial to skim the whole wall, if you're that bothered by it. With a sheen, what you do to one/two spots, you have to do to the whole wall. I once made the mistake of brushing out a primed patch under eggshell in a bath. Even though I feathered it well and dry, you could still tell the patch had been brushed after two coats of eggshell. The sidelight coming from the window lit it up, right above the toilet. It doesn't take much.


Better yet, quit staring at it, as you and gym said, it basically cannot be fixed.

chrisn 11-13-2011 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhmd (Post 769911)
Thank you all for your help.

I was on a roll with the 123plus for bathroom 1 so I kept going into bath 2.

In bath 2, I definitely see plenty of flashing and texture contrast.
The wooster roller did help to create more texture on the patches, but there is still contrast.

Would priming again with BM Fresh start primer fix anything? No

If not, what's the best way to skim coat?

Wide putty knife,yes,8 or 10 in roller, ?
Do you just add extra water to pre-mixed sheetrock mud?I do not, others do
What's the target consistency?

I still think you are being too pickey but if you are looking for a level 5 finish then this is what you must do.

jsheridan 11-13-2011 08:41 AM

Dave, I can appreciate your concern about the texture flashing. Few are pickier than I about the final look of my work, and this particular issue bothers me a great deal. However, some things just have to be lived with. If the cost of skim coating isn't an issue, have at it. But, with all due respect, if you have questions about skim coating, it probably not something you should tackle. It's a lot of work, and you can sometimes inadvertently create new unsightly issues. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do it, just saying think about it before you jump in. Is the sleeping dog your thinking of waking really that bothersome? Put the room back together and see what it looks like redecorated and in the normal lighting for the room. It may not look as bad as you think. Painting is all about playing tricks with light, and somtimes a strategically placed wall hanging. There are things you can do with light and decorations to help camoflauge the areas. Just trying to encourage you to try the least costly methods before the tackling the most. Keep us posted.

chrisn 11-13-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsheridan (Post 769997)
Dave, I can appreciate your concern about the texture flashing. Few are pickier than I about the final look of my work, and this particular issue bothers me a great deal. However, some things just have to be lived with. If the cost of skim coating isn't an issue, have at it. But, with all due respect, if you have questions about skim coating, it probably not something you should tackle. It's a lot of work, and you can sometimes inadvertently create new unsightly issues. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do it, just saying think about it before you jump in. Is the sleeping dog your thinking of waking really that bothersome? Put the room back together and see what it looks like redecorated and in the normal lighting for the room. It may not look as bad as you think. Painting is all about playing tricks with light, and somtimes a strategically placed wall hanging. There are things you can do with light and decorations to help camoflauge the areas. Just trying to encourage you to try the least costly methods before the tackling the most. Keep us posted.


I wish I had you're talent for diplomacy:thumbsup:

Matthewt1970 11-13-2011 09:32 AM

If at all possible do your spot priming with a roller. And your spots will need 3 coats. It will help to do your your first prime coat with an actual primer but if it is just a couple spots then you can do it with the finish paint but it still needs 3 coats. One trick you can do is catch the spots when they are just about dry and go back over them with a dry roller. That will help build up a texture and blend it with the rest of the wall.


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