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Old 04-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #1
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Exterior painting recommendations


I've been visiting local paint stores here in SE Tennessee and checking the posts on this site and would like to get some recommendations. I need to repaint the exterior of my house which was built in the 60's. It was a rental for a long time before I bought it - I think that at least one coat of paint on the outside was actually interior paint. About 6 years ago, I hired professional painters to paint the wood (due to above interior paint, peeling paint and the fact that it tests positive for lead). The best I can remember, they used oil based primer (possibly Richards?); not sure what they went over the primer with though. Within a couple of years, the paint was peeling again. So now I'm going to do the job and want to eliminate the problems if possible.

The majority of the peeling paint is on the 2 eaves which face north and south (most of house is brick). The attic is ventilated with blown in insulation so moisture from the attic side shouldn't be the peeling culprit; the eaves have about a 3' overhang so that should protect from most rain. I'm thinking that previous bad surface prep is most likely the cause.

So, now to the questions: after I scrape off all the loose paint, what to use to best undercoat for the worst parts? One paint store recommended Mad Dog Primer; their web site video shows surfaces just like mine. Or is Xim Peel Bond better?

Paints considered/recommended are SW Duration or Ben Moore Aura. I'm a bit concerned by comments I've seen about quick drying time difficulty. I'm a good painter but not a pro by any means; I'll be painting off a ladder to time is a factor.

I really like the warranty terms for both of these, but don't want to get something that's beyond my ability to apply well.

What do you recommend?

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Old 04-25-2010, 07:53 PM   #2
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After the proper prep of scraping, sanding, and washing I would prime with Sherwin Williams A100 oil base primer, caulk as needed and top coat with Sherwin Williams SuperPaint,given the year your home was built it will contain lead, I would try to follow lead safe work practices as much as possible for your health and your families, if your the home owner you don't have to be a certified renovator, but I would at least still wear a n100 mask, disposable coveralls, disposable gloves, seal off windows and doors when scraping, hook up any sanders to a hepa vac, use plastic to catch the paint chips and wash your hands well before eating

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Old 04-26-2010, 01:08 PM   #3
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Well, there could be a number of issues causing the problem, and we'll need more detailed info to try and find the cause, to then propose the best solution(s)

6 years ago, was it just the suspected interior paint peeling...or did more than just that top coat peel off?

When it was peeling again, did it go down to but leave the primer?
Or did the primer come off also?

Are the peeling areas down to bare wood?

Make sure the attic's ventilation is in fact working, just because the vents are there doesn't mean it's functional
And depending on what type of vents you have the blown insulation could be interfering with it

Also check for any roof leaks that may not leave obvious "water-damage"
Worn or chipped shingles can let just enough moisture behind trim to affect coatings

Depending on your replies you may need specific solutions to your problem

Also I'd be remiss not to mention as your house was built in the '60s it is illegal for you to scrape and/or sand unless you take the EPA approved lead containment course and get certified (about $275 for the course)

This is a federal law and you can be fined over $30,000 if you do not abide by it, or if you do not abide by the procedures described in the course
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:14 PM   #4
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We are an EPA Certified Firm and have Certified Renovators, if you are the owner of the home and are doing the work yourself you don't have to be certified, but I would still follow lead safe work practices to protect yourself and famillly
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housepaintingny
...if you are the owner of the home and are doing the work yourself you don't have to be certified...
Maybe (in your specific state) this would have been true before last week, however the new Natonal/Federal EPA rules as of April 20-22 would mean one in this situation would be subject to these (or harsher state) rules and fines regardless

Our (DIYChatroom) regs have led us to prohibit DIY lead removal advice (due to liability) for years (though states have varied in their regs.)
As of this point (right now, due to the new Fed Regs), it's pretty much a done deal we won't allow anything of the sort even insinuating a fix for lead issues
Please/kindly cease and desist in this type of advice immediately

I don't disagree that many homeowners/DIYers have had the alternative of encapsulating lead (w/o cert.) themselves for years
However, the new regs effective last week prohibit even that alternative

Thank you for your support in/on this issue
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Maybe (in your specific state) this would have been true before last week, however the new Natonal/Federal EPA rules as of April 20-22 would mean one in this situation would be subject to these (or harsher state) rules and fines regardless

Our (DIYChatroom) regs have led us to prohibit DIY lead removal advice (due to liability) for years (though states have varied in their regs.)
As of this point (right now, due to the new Fed Regs), it's pretty much a done deal we won't allow anything of the sort even insinuating a fix for lead issues
Please/kindly cease and desist in this type of advice immediately

I don't disagree that many homeowners/DIYers have had the alternative of encapsulating lead (w/o cert.) themselves for years
However, the new regs effective last week prohibit even that alternative

Thank you for your support in/on this issue
I have been studying and following these laws for 8 months, as the owner of a painting company we are a certified firm and a certified renovator, you can find our EPA certifications and # on our web site,besides the federal epa law there are state laws I know in NY state if you own the home you can work on it yourself, if its a daycare , child facility, hud housing or rental property you need a certified firm with a certified renovator and as a contractor you need to be a certified firm with certified renovators to work on pre 1978 homes, I have even blogged the law on our company blog
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housepaintingny
I have been studying and following these laws for 8 months, as the owner of a painting company we are a certified firm and a certified renovator, you can find our EPA certifications and # on our web site,besides the federal epa law there are state laws I know in NY state if you own the home you can work on it yourself, if its a daycare , child facility, hud housing or rental property you need a certified firm with a certified renovator and as a contractor you need to be a certified firm with certified renovators to work on pre 1978 homes, I have even blogged the law on our company blog
OK, I'll admit state laws can vary, but not less then Fed Laws
Regardless, due to the discrepancies (and liabilities), we do not allow DIY Lead Paint removal, abatement, or advice here

Again, Thank You For Your Input and Support
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Well, there could be a number of issues causing the problem, and we'll need more detailed info to try and find the cause, to then propose the best solution(s)

6 years ago, was it just the suspected interior paint peeling...or did more than just that top coat peel off?
I assume that the entire house (eaves, soffits and trim) was painted with interior paint. The eaves have the worst peeling paint, the rest is much less peeling and alligatoring.

When it was peeling again, did it go down to but leave the primer?
Or did the primer come off also?
Bare wood with a chalky feel.

Are the peeling areas down to bare wood?

Make sure the attic's ventilation is in fact working, just because the vents are there doesn't mean it's functional
And depending on what type of vents you have the blown insulation could be interfering with it
Attic ventilation is eave vents, roof vents and soffit vents and are all passive vents. The blown in insulation isn't blocking the soffit vents.

Also check for any roof leaks that may not leave obvious "water-damage"
Worn or chipped shingles can let just enough moisture behind trim to affect coatings
The worst peeling is on the center of the eaves; roof was only a few years old when the house was repainted.

Depending on your replies you may need specific solutions to your problem

Also I'd be remiss not to mention as your house was built in the '60s it is illegal for you to scrape and/or sand unless you take the EPA approved lead containment course and get certified (about $275 for the course)

This is a federal law and you can be fined over $30,000 if you do not abide by it, or if you do not abide by the procedures described in the course
Another issue that has come up is that the local SW store tells me that "nothing will stick to lead paint and the only solution is to remove ALL the paint to the bare wood". I realize that this might be the most desirable, but I certainly can't afford to do that, and I'm pretty sure that there is something I can paint with that will be durable. Do I assume that the SW advice is a standard cya comment? I have not been impressed with the knowledge (or lack of) from this store - this makes me question what they are telling me.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:19 PM   #9
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Any good bonding primer will stick to lead paint
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:42 PM   #10
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Slick

Quote:
Regardless, due to the discrepancies (and liabilities), we do not allow DIY Lead Paint removal, abatement, or advice here
I did not know that. Is there a sticky on the subject?

I do understand the logic though! I wonder how the ban on paint with lead advice will affect this site... the other forums too, since this lead thing affects so manyu area of contruction and maintenance.
I seldom come here since I do not get notices of replies. I hope I can remember to check back on this subject.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands-on
Another issue that has come up is that the local SW store tells me that "nothing will stick to lead paint and the only solution is to remove ALL the paint to the bare wood". I realize that this might be the most desirable, but I certainly can't afford to do that, and I'm pretty sure that there is something I can paint with that will be durable. Do I assume that the SW advice is a standard cya comment? I have not been impressed with the knowledge (or lack of) from this store - this makes me question what they are telling me.
You are correct in questioning this advice
It is not quite accurate
Certainly the best solution (as always) is to remove ALL paint to the bare wood
But I have never heard of or experienced the necessity of this solution in this type of case
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boman47k
Slick

I did not know that. Is there a sticky on the subject?

I do understand the logic though! I wonder how the ban on paint with lead advice will affect this site... the other forums too, since this lead thing affects so manyu area of contruction and maintenance.
I seldom come here since I do not get notices of replies. I hope I can remember to check back on this subject.
Good point, there should be a sticky on this
In reality there hasn't been a need as yet per se, as we have been able to reply on a case by case basis, clarifying the state/region differences, and basically saying "you are on your own" as to H/O encapsulation or whatever

These new laws though...phew...we (this site) should probably sticky something about them
I'm not sure how it (the new laws) will ultimately play out, but 37K (fine) a day...whoo boy
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:35 AM   #13
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These new laws though...phew...we (this site) should probably sticky something about them
I'm not sure how it (the new laws) will ultimately play out, but 37K (fine) a day...whoo boy


Hey slick, it is ONLY $32,500 a day not $37K, we can afford that, right??
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:20 AM   #14
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Actually, it has been increased to $37,500, and that is not per day, but per violation. So, if you were doing 5 windows in a house, you could incur 5 fines. Then there is also a provision to double that fine if it is done 'knowingly or willfully' with added criminal penalties. These are max fines and as of yet, I do not know personally of any being fined. I'm not sure if the EPA has started recruiting inspectors/enforcers for this reg yet.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:10 AM   #15
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A link to the EPA laws in effect now (as of April 22nd)

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm

And in some parts has changed from original:

Quote:
The homeowner may also opt out by signing a waiver if there are no children under age six frequently visiting the property, no one in the home is pregnant, or the property is not a child-occupied facility. This is no longer true. The EPA just removed this waiver.
Quote:
Information for Homeowners Working at Home
If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project. However, you have the ultimate responsibility for the safety of your family or children in your care. If you are living in a pre-1978 home and planning to do painting or repairs, please read a copy of EPA's Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools (PDF)

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