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Old 04-02-2013, 09:09 PM   #16
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Epoxy Newb - Have a Few Questions


Wow awesome community - each one of you are extremely helpful. I really appreciate it! I'm just trying to absorb all the knowledge in at the moment....

If i were to buy the Ruse-Oleum "Professional" series epoxy and add a layer of clear coat, would that prevent hot tire pickup?

Speaking of clear coat, what brand do you guy recommend?


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Originally Posted by jsheridan View Post
Where does scrub, scrub, scrub come in?
i thought we use a brush to scrub the floor after pouring the acid etching on it?

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Here are some pictures of my garage and oil stains.. Seems kind of serious... Will i have trouble removing them?



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Old 04-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #17
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Pour-N-Restore will take care of those just fine. Hit the main spots with PNR then use a good degreaser on the whole floor.


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Old 04-02-2013, 09:42 PM   #18
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Epoxy Newb - Have a Few Questions


It's doubtful a clear coat would prevent tire pick up. You'll probably end up taking the epoxy up and the clear with it. The tire heat is still going to go through the epoxy to the concrete. I haven't acid etched a floor in a while, but I don't remember having to scrub, the acid does the work. You want it to go from smooth to the feel of a fine sandpaper. I would mix up the acid and apply it with a pump sprayer, use a mask. Go to a real paint store and tell them what you need, they'll get you set up. You're trying to find a way around the true cost of a high quality, high performance epoxy floor. Those kits are not high quality or performance products. Please Boba, don't cut corners, skimp on cost, or screw up instructions. You really don't want a failed epoxy floor, trust me. Talk about cost.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JMDPainting View Post
When I do a high use , high traffic floor that needs a product that will hold up I use Devoe High Performance coatings. I've used their two part Epoxy on garage floors , on gymnasium shower stall concrete walls and also on a very high traffic professional mechanic's garage floors and walls. All with excellent results. As others have said, it's all on the prep. If you don't take the time to do the proper prep no matter what you use may fail.

http://www.superfpaint.com/categories/Industrial/
I'll look further into it, thanks!
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:49 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by jsheridan View Post
It's doubtful a clear coat would prevent tire pick up. You'll probably end up taking the epoxy up and the clear with it. The tire heat is still going to go through the epoxy to the concrete. I haven't acid etched a floor in a while, but I don't remember having to scrub, the acid does the work. You want it to go from smooth to the feel of a fine sandpaper. I would mix up the acid and apply it with a pump sprayer, use a mask. Go to a real paint store and tell them what you need, they'll get you set up. You're trying to find a way around the true cost of a high quality, high performance epoxy floor. Those kits are not high quality or performance products. Please Boba, don't cut corners, skimp on cost, or screw up instructions. You really don't want a failed epoxy floor, trust me. Talk about cost.
Do you have any recommendations on brands that offer a 1.) gloss finish, 2.) prevents hot tire pickup, 3.) in dark red tiles or something similar?

So far another forum member recommended Devoe High Performance coatings. I'll look into that right now.

And yes, the Alphagarage's estimator was over $700 for 400 sq ft. I wish it was cheaper...
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:56 PM   #21
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Epoxy Newb - Have a Few Questions


Hit a couple of paint stores, Ben Moore, Sherwin, and explain to them what you need. They'll know how to help you.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:27 PM   #22
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Yes... the R-O-M system is a "Decent" product.

There are much better kits, and...obviously, there are worse!

The ROM-kits come with a packet of Citric-Acid based etching granules.
* This can do OK, depending how hard your surface cured. There are separate packets available too.
* I wouldn't rule out repeating this 2 or 3 times!!
* You want to obtain a "100-grit sandpaper"-kinda feel on the floor, instead of the slick status.
* When the floor is etched enough, the new coatings will have a good grip.
* Concrete must be totally dried-out b4 final paint. Depending on temp., airflow, & humidity; you may have plan on 2 different weekends!
* You can tape 1' squares of tinfoil down using painters-tape on all sides. This creates a "pocket" that will trap escaping moisture, letting you know have to keep waiting if it's wet underneath the next day.
* The "Professional-level" kit would be a better bet.
* This link for the Pro kit...http://webapps.easy2.com/cm_mvc/Gene...ge_id=35798042
* You can also add the Premium-Clear for best durability.
* Clear-coat link...http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=13 2nd coat of this is optional.

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Old 04-04-2013, 03:37 AM   #23
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OP give Christine McGuire at www.Epoxy-Coat.com a call. She can fix you up with a quality floor without breaking your budget too much and it will be a lot better then the Rust-Oleum kit. If the epoxy is put down properly, hot tires will not pull it up. A clear coat is always better then not, just because it gives a thicker coat, as well as added protection. Does you floor see a lot of sunshine? Epoxy does not do well in the sun, as it will yellow and get chalky looking. A clear coat of polyurethane on top of of the epoxy will help prevent this. Another advantage of a clear coat is if you have some problems later on, with scratches and such. You can just do a light scuff job and put down another coat of the clear.

Do you have an Home Depot near you? I think it is really a lot easier to grind the floor then acid etch and you are gong to get a better job grinding anyway. To properly acid etch you need to go over the floor twice. The second time you are looking for areas that didn't strip properly. The etching solution will effervesce again over these areas. It also entails lots of scrubbing and washing out as well as putting down something to neutralize the acid before the final rinse. This all costs money and time.

Home depot rents a floor buffer, with a grinding wheel on the bottom, for about $50, for half a day and $100 for the full day. With your size floor you can do it in a few hours. You would also need a small angle grinder with a wheel to do the edges the buffer can't get to, it can also be rented if you don't have one. This is what I am going to use on my floor. Grind the floor, clean up the dust, give it a good rinse, let it dry and you're ready to put down the epoxy.

I can't emphasize enough that proper floor prep is the key to a good floor. Almost every case of bad epoxy floor experiences can be traced to improper floor prep. As I said you can get away with cheaper epoxy if the floor is prepped well but even if you are putting down the best epoxy, without proper floor prep it will fail.

I have a 940 sq ft garage floor and the system I am using for my floor was $2300 for materials. I am not going to spend that kind of money and not prep the floor properly. With what I am putting down the floor will look great for many years.

Sorry for the long winded post, I just hate to see anyone waste time and money on a floor without doing it correctly. It's funny there always seems to never be enough money in the budget to do it right the first time but there's always enough money to correct the mistakes. This is true with any project. I know I have learned the hard way, to always try and do it right the first time.


Earl

Last edited by retfr8flyr; 04-04-2013 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:59 AM   #24
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Epoxy Newb - Have a Few Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Faron79 View Post
Yes... the R-O-M system is a "Decent" product.

There are much better kits, and...obviously, there are worse!

The ROM-kits come with a packet of Citric-Acid based etching granules.
* This can do OK, depending how hard your surface cured. There are separate packets available too.
* I wouldn't rule out repeating this 2 or 3 times!!
* You want to obtain a "100-grit sandpaper"-kinda feel on the floor, instead of the slick status.
* When the floor is etched enough, the new coatings will have a good grip.
* Concrete must be totally dried-out b4 final paint. Depending on temp., airflow, & humidity; you may have plan on 2 different weekends!
* You can tape 1' squares of tinfoil down using painters-tape on all sides. This creates a "pocket" that will trap escaping moisture, letting you know have to keep waiting if it's wet underneath the next day.
* The "Professional-level" kit would be a better bet.
* This link for the Pro kit...http://webapps.easy2.com/cm_mvc/Gene...ge_id=35798042
* You can also add the Premium-Clear for best durability.
* Clear-coat link...http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=13 2nd coat of this is optional.

Faron

Thanks for the tips Faron. I e-mailed Rust Oleum asking whether adding the clear coat to the Professional series would prevent hot tire pickup since the Professional series does not prevent it .... Still haven't heard back from them yet and it's been a day... Will keep waiting......



---------------

Hi Earl, thanks for your continuous contribution to this thread. I will probably still stick with the Rust Oleum Professional + Clear Coat as my primary choice. But i'll also consider epoxy-coat as well. I'll weigh it out and see which one is better

The Rust Oleum Professional has great reviews from people. I just need to know if adding the Clear Coat epoxy on top of it will prevent hot tire pickup... If it will, i'll be going that route instead.

I'll also visit Home Depot to check out the floor grinder. I've never used it before... Is it non-professional friendly?

Would grinding + degreasing + acid etching be the best? I have major oil spots as you see in the pictures above. I'll have to make sure they're completely eliminated before applying epoxy.


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Old 04-04-2013, 05:47 AM   #25
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The floor buffer is easy to use and is non-professional friendly. The grinding disk just replaces the buffer pad used in this demo. You would need to degrease the floor, with whatever you decide to use, then grind it with the buffer, just keep it moving you don't want to let it sit in one spot. You don't need to do any etching if you grind the floor. You can grind dry, which creates a lot of dust, or wet the floor and grind it wet. Clean up is a little harder with wet grinding, the dust turns into mud but I plan to use it wet myself. Talk to Epoxy-Coat before you decide, their product is about the same cost as Rust-Oleum but I think it's a better product.


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Old 04-04-2013, 03:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retfr8flyr View Post
The floor buffer is easy to use and is non-professional friendly. The grinding disk just replaces the buffer pad used in this demo. You would need to degrease the floor, with whatever you decide to use, then grind it with the buffer, just keep it moving you don't want to let it sit in one spot. You don't need to do any etching if you grind the floor. You can grind dry, which creates a lot of dust, or wet the floor and grind it wet. Clean up is a little harder with wet grinding, the dust turns into mud but I plan to use it wet myself. Talk to Epoxy-Coat before you decide, their product is about the same cost as Rust-Oleum but I think it's a better product.


Earl

My garage is about 450 sq ft.

With the Rust Oleum Professional, I'd need to buy 2 kits to cover the area. One kit covers up to 400 sq ft., so 2 would cover almost 800. Maybe I can use the excess to do a 2nd very thin coat? Also going to put the Premium Clear Coat on it..

Total will come out to be $300.

With Epoxy-Coat, a 500 sq ft. kit with clear coat will be $500, a $200 difference. But then again, we're talking about solvent based vs. 100% solid.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:04 PM   #27
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Wow, after reading this thread, I'm second guessing whether i could pull this project off.

The guy prepped correctly, used a diamond grinder, but still had troubles with the epoxy not adhering properly. I also live in Southern California...
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:45 PM   #28
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Wow, after reading this thread, I'm second guessing whether i could pull this project off.

The guy prepped correctly, used a diamond grinder, but still had troubles with the epoxy not adhering properly. I also live in Southern California...
(sigh)...Apparently nobody is gonna agree with me here but I'm gonna say it anyway. For those who want to disagree, I'm willing put up my experiences and knowledge to debate my points with anyone capable of doing so with information based on something factual, rather than on some obscure happenstance from way back when.

Painting a garage floor is not your typical application. Epoxy is the best thing for you to use. There is specific surface prep that must be conducted properly to minimize the risk of failure.

Having said that - while not typical, it's not an impossible surface to paint successfully - and - The surface prep is not an issue that should be conducted only by experienced contractors...100% solids epoxy would be an ideal recommendation, if you were more experienced and the amount of exposure and traffic on your floor warranted it...which it doesn't. Diamond grinders, scarifiers, bead blast machines all may do an adequate job prepping a floor (I've used each), but so does acid (citrus or muriatic) etching - at much less of a cost to you AND is time proven.

Rustoleum makes garage floor kits - both in water borne and solvent borne. You've looked at the solvent. I'm not sure why you're not considering the waterborne, but you're doing yourself a dis-service by not doing so. These are remarkable products. I don't represent Rustoluem, but I'd really like to know the basis of why anyone would consider them only "decent"...the thing you need to know about epoxies is manufacturer's don't offer them on a good, better, best basis like they do with wall and house paints. That has to do with economics and liability issues. They are offering their best formulations for specific applications, and Rustoleum's quality of products and the resulting success they've enjoyed in the market place really need not be challenged.

In my earlier post, I recommended using a water borne (still do, btw), possibly with vinyl color chips, and followed by a clear epoxy application. The clear has the same ability to resist "hot tire pick-up" as does the pigmented (actually maybe even more so). The reason I recommended the clear is more of a maintenance issue, but still results in a higher millage of protective coating (also helps to bed down the vinyl chips if used) - so it's all good. Personally, I'd etch the floor (after a detergent clean to remove grease/oil deposits) as opposed to any type of scarifying.

I so emphatically make these recommendations 'cause (a) I've painted several garage floors using this same system...(b) I've sold hundreds more using this same system...(c) I've sold many, many commercial applications using this same system (some commercial apps have far more exposure to damaging elements than "hot tire pick-up"). In my decades of selling (and reluctantly applying) epoxy systems for floors (solvent, waterborne, high solids, 100% solids, etc.), I have also been very active in the observation and resolution of problems occurring with painted floors. Without exception, I have never experienced a failure based on a defective or low quality product (we're talking epoxies here), rather 100% of the problems can be identified as application error or improper surface prep.

So...continue to gather info from people with horror stories of painted floors gone bad, and you'll continue to be more apprehensive about taking on a project that, contrarily, so many manufacturers have endorsed for homeowner application with surprisingly good results.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:45 PM   #29
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Thanks for your post ric. The reason for using RustOleum's solvent based epoxy vs it's water borne is that only the solvent based offers the color I'm looking for, which is tile red.

For my specific application, which would be parking my car on a daily basis, working on it occasionally on weekends such as oil change, jacking the car up, etc, would either formula work? I'm planning on putting a coat of clear anyways.

There's only 2 things I'm worried about with RustOleum's solvent based epoxy: 1.) hot tire pickup, 2.) scratches and scuffs. But I think applying it's premium clear coat would solve these 2 issues?
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:09 PM   #30
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I know this is an older thread but there sure is some good info here. I've been through a few garage floor projects and I know from experience that a lot of what retfr8flyr was saying is right on the money.

My current floor was done in 3 coats using a commercial quality epoxy including a primer. It's only been 8 months, but after my second car restoration it still looks new. Retfr8flyr recommended a good place to get info at is the Garage Journal. I also found a good info from a site called All Garage Floors. They have a lot of articles on flooring. This one about epoxy garage floors is a good place to start.

I do know from researching the Rust-Oleum kits that the solvent based Professional series is a better epoxy than the water based. It has a higher solids content than the water based product which means it dries thicker and it has a higher spread rate. The problem with it however is that you need a respirator when you apply it because of the solvent. I used it on my last house and it held up fairly well, but it did start getting abused when I decided to do a car restoration on one side of the garage. Dragging jacks stands and parts on the floor caused scratch marks and a gear oil spill that was left to sit overnight created a light brown translucent stain.

One thing I learned as well is that acid etching only works on concrete. It won't remove a sealer that is on the concrete. Found that out with my very first DIY floor when the epoxy kit I put down peeled right up a week later . Oh, and follow the instructions

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