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Old 09-01-2013, 10:16 PM   #31
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


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Not really relevant to the question.
You cannot possibly be serious.

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they never showed the actual prepainted drywall they painted with the Bher paint in the first eample, just said it was a tan).
Look again. And if Behr does not recommend a particular shade of gray primer and the other companies do (even though they are different shades of gray), what exactly do you expect them to do? Go against the manufacturer's recommendations?

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Looks more like you choose it because it agrees with your opinion.
Really? What opinion would that be, since I never said? I have no opinion on what he wrote because I've never tried it.

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I may have missed it. But I didn't see where it says anything about the guy. So there isn't much reason to believe he isn't prejudice toward certain methods or products.
As opposed to, say, the individual members here? Like maybe the guy whose signature line says Behr paint isn't worth the bucket it comes in?

I recognize a well written review when I see one, whether the results are correct or not. Maybe you just don't recognize critical thinking and the empirical method when you see it. That's not exactly the forte of this forum, is it? The strength of this forum is mass average opinion and peer review.

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Old 09-01-2013, 10:23 PM   #32
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Yes, I will take the advise of the Pro painters here, before the opinion of that site.

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I recognize a well written review when I see one, whether the results are correct or not.
If they are incorrect, then they are worthless. And it doesn't matter how well written it is.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:27 PM   #33
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If they are incorrect, then they are worthless. And it doesn't matter how well written it is.
Same goes for every single post on this site. And most here are poorly written. So if you're a homeowner how would you know which are worthless? It's a lot more likely to be one that well written, that's for sure.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:42 PM   #34
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


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Same goes for every single post on this site. And most here are poorly written. So if you're a homeowner how would you know which are worthless? It's a lot more likely to be one that well written, that's for sure.
A well written falsehood, is still a falsehood. And often they take their time to write it in a very proper manor to make it sound true.

We don't know if that site is biased or not.

That is why this site is the place to get the info. We have many Pro people that donate their time and knowledge. They have no vested interest in pushing anyone product, not do they make money on site hits. So a home owner can get all the info here, and not just 1 biased opinion. When several pro people are telling a home owner the same thing. Its far more likely that they are getting the truth.

I've done enough to hi jack his thread. So I won't respond to you anymore.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #35
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And often they take their time to write it in a very proper manor to make it sound true.
It's called the scientific method, and if you can't think critically enough to make the distinction between that and well written fluff, then you're really not in a position to critique it.

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We have many Pro people that donate their time and knowledge. They have no vested interest in pushing anyone product
How the hell could you possibly know that? And even if they have no vested interest, how much is an ignorant, dogmatic point of view worth, when it comes down to that? Free stuff is often worth what you paid for it.

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:35 AM   #36
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


I have over 25 years experience in this trade.Is my opinion worthless?I know nothing about Behr as I have never used any of it.I'm sure it's not all bad but it is not my brand of choice. I have never pushed any brand on people I have only suggested what I know works.
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:25 AM   #37
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


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By extension, we shouldn't believe anything we read in this forum, then? If you're saying we should base our conclusions only on our own experience, then why are you here giving advice and why does this forum even exist?

I would say Pauhl's review is far more detailed, controlled, and scientific than any of the more or less random comments on this forum. I've never seen anything like review from you or me or anyone else here for that matter. People don't need to believe everything they read on the internet. But if they're not going to believe reviews that well written, then the internet is probably not the place for them to begin with.

I don't believe anyone that uses a fake name to post supposed "scientific" posts, nor do I believe all that a fake person posts that is being subsidized by Mr Behr. Which has already been substantiated elsewhere and no, I am not going to waste time digging up THAT information

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:19 AM   #38
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I loved this response:

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My question is this- does the behr premium plus ultra paint have the consistency of peanut butter and sag like crazy when cutting. This is the reason I havn’t used any behr paint in awhile.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:44 AM   #39
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


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I have over 25 years experience in this trade.Is my opinion worthless?I know nothing about Behr as I have never used any of it.
Well, I think the answer to your question is right there in your post. No, your opinion isn't worthless in general, but since you know nothing about Behr paint, then your opinion about it specifically can't be worth much, can it?

Most of us (not all) can tell the difference between information that is likely to be trustworthy, and information that isn't. Does the writer use terms properly? Does his experience with something you do know about match with yours? For example, if he says something like "this paint dries almost as fast as Aura, which could be a good or bad thing depending on your job." Well, you don't know if he's correct, but you know what he's talking about because you know Aura dries fast, so you have trust in what he's saying there. I can read a Consumer's Report review on something and pretty quickly grasp whether or not it's reliable based on my similar experiences.

And then there's the basic empirical process. If you're not used to critical thinking, then yeah it's going to be hard to understand if someone is drawing the right conclusions. If you are, then you can get an idea if a person did his experiment correctly. That's one of the drawbacks to this forum - a lot of the participants aren't very good at critical thinking and logical deduction. As I said, there are pros and cons to this forum, but a lot of critical thinking isn't the strength here. It's more about getting a general feel for average opinions on some topic (which is valuable), but not about forging ahead and making progress with understanding and materials and technique, and innovation. That's what Pauhl's site is better at.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:44 AM   #40
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and no, I am not going to waste time digging up THAT information
Why am I not surprised?
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:53 AM   #41
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I don't believe anyone that uses a fake name to post supposed "scientific" posts
That's a bit ironic, since almost everyone here doesn't use their real name. But anyway, his information isn't "supposedly" scientific - it just is. If you had that sort of background, you'd get it. Whether or not his conclusions are correct or if he "cheated" - we can't say. But his process is obvious. Whereas on this forum we just have brief snippets of opinions with no supplied data or research to back it up.

There's some overlap in Pauhl's experience and mine. Every time I try a product he's reviewed, it matches almost exactly with my experience. You're the type of person who does less experimenting, and more trusting the way you've always done things that get the results you've come to expect. I try more new things, and so if I do something that matches what I read on some website, I tend to trust the other things on that website I haven't tried yet. It's not proof, it's just probability - not to mention common sense.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:00 AM   #42
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


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nor do I believe all that a fake person posts
By the way, I think everyone knows who he is. Jack Pauhl Maximum Painting is simply the name of his company. He states his name on that website as well as his PaintHacker magazine site.

http://www.jackpauhl.com/about/

http://painthacker.com/author/brian-havanas/
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #43
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LOL. Just read through this thread.

I like JP. But you have to also understand he reviews from the view point of a high production painter. Not a DIY. Not even close. So much of his "reviews" assumes a high level of ability.

And I don't use all his methods, or paint in the same environment. So I can use my own experience to see if what he says is of value TO ME.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:34 AM   #44
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


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I'm just saying we're pretty much "unknown" people posting our thoughts whenever we feel like it. Your name is "toolseeker" and you might or might not be somewhere in Florida. Homeowners coming here have no idea who you are. Same as me. Your thoughts aren't meaningless, but one person has already said "don't believe everything you read on the internet" - hopefully the irony and paradox of that statement isn't lost on us here - that statement was written on the internet. And now you are saying you wouldn't use a paint just because some guy on the internet says to. But are you and I not some guys too? Why would you expect people to listen to you, but not Pauhl?

Pauhl's website is far more organized and professional than this forum. I'm not saying this forum isn't good - it is. I'm just saying each type of website has pros and cons. The strength of his site is the in-depth reviews, videos, organization and a clear, consistent point of view. If you read his articles thoroughly, you'd know exactly what his views are on primers, and you'd see the photographic evidence of his experience. You can tell he demands results as well.

The strength of this forum is strength in numbers, custom answers to homeowner's questions, and peer review (anything you or I say can be challenged by anyone else.) You don't see differing opinions on his site, and you don't see people going there for custom advice and getting answers. Here people can get multiple options for solving their problems.

Each type of site has its place and best use.
I don't expect anyone to blindly follow me or anyone else. The only thing I do here is make suggestions based on my years of experience then a couple of other pros come on and agree with me ( like they should lol) then the HO has a product or procedure worth looking into. If they disagree then the HO should do further research and find which will work best for them.
I am not a brand prostitute (keeping it clean) I have used most of the major paint brands so when I comment on 1 it is from experience or I will say I have not used it.
I would hope so, but that's apples to oranges, his is a designed website this is a forum. If I was a HO or even a pro who had never tried this product after reading his blog I would probably try it. BUT I have tried it, more than once, and it is from that experience that I say I did not care for it.
I am sorry I really don't care about his view of priming. As most I have tried cheating and taking the easy way and not priming sometimes I got away it other times it came back and bit me in the a$$. So it is my experience that if I have any doubt I prime.
As do I.
Jeff I don't want to argue but my point is this guy may be everything you think he is, I hope that is true. But you have to remember there are websites out there that their facts are so slanted that their credibility is questionable, Consumer Reports and Angies List come to mind. Yet these sites get thousands of hits everyday. I would 100 times rather hear from real life experience and the results of them than what was done in an environment created in a lab.
And yes I live in Fla.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:35 AM   #45
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Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?


These Behr threads sure do get interesting.

One thing I have deduced about the results posted by Jack Paul affiliates is that they are applying thicker than average coatings. I have tried to pin him down on this, but the best answer I got was that he was applying between 7-8 mil. This is not easy to do.

An inference from the premium plus TDS, and comments by Behr users, lead me to believe that the trick to getting those type results is to apply the first coat to the max thickness specced (6mil) or thicker. Although I personally would not recommend going outside of the manufactures recommendations.

As Matthew mentioned, checking WFT rarely comes up in residential painting. In fact, many top notch pros will never make this measurement and produce consistent quality results by 'feel' alone.

For me though, getting to know more about film thickness has been a major breakthrough for my painting skills, and the results I'm getting. It is very simple to check film thickness, as I have said before.
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