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-   -   Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/do-i-need-special-primer-red-ish-paint-186259/)

amakarevic 08-31-2013 02:29 PM

Do I need special primer for red(ish) paint?
 
I am getting ready to paint my living room using Behr's Glowing Firelight (S-G-200):


http://i.stack.imgur.com/3G6jq.jpg


My building sidekick suggested not to use the regular Killz2 primer but some special gray primer for red(ish) paints. I am posting here to confirm his suggestion and open a discussion for second opinions. Which specific primer would be the best for this paint?

Matthewt1970 08-31-2013 02:54 PM

Reds can take 3 coats to cover other colors especially white. They typically only take 2 coats to cover gray. That makes people think they must always use a gray primer under reds, but that is not always the case. If you have bare drywall and use a white primer, then you can very well still be looking at 3 coats to cover the primer. If you have bare drywall than by all means use the gray primer. If you already have painted walls then I would just go with 3 coats of red. That way you only have to clean one paint setup.

Jmayspaint 08-31-2013 03:27 PM

The grey primer almost always helps. Depends a little on the paint your using. I have done red with two coats of Aura over previously painted walls with no problem. So in that case, grey primer is unnecessary IMO.

With regular mid line paints, the grey does really help. It helps more if its a specific grey for the red you are using. SW, and other stores I'm sure, have a formula to match the shade of grey to the red your using.

Gymschu 08-31-2013 04:15 PM

When in doubt, go with the gray primer. Not saying you can't use white and get away with it, but,,,,,,,,,,,sometimes with certain shades of red, your paint will look PINK over top of the white primer, so, of course you have to apply more coats.

jeffnc 08-31-2013 05:41 PM

First issue is why you are priming. If there is already paint on the wall and you are repainting, there is normally no need to use any primer at all. So regular Kilz is out.

The next reason to prime is for color. I'm not too familiar with the Behr color chips, so I don't know if they make a color prime recommendation. With Sherwin Williams, for example, on every paint chip is a gray shade (or lack of) that they recommend under the paint, to bring out the correct color in the paint.

So ideally, there is probably some shade of gray, whether Behr recommends it or not, that would be best under this color.

Basically I agree with matthew, that if this is a repaint, adding a third coat of this paint without primer will probably achieve the actual color and also save you time and money. (I don't know about you, but I never clean roller pans or covers - I throw out the covers and use disposable pan liners. They don't mention this cost when they tell you in the store it's cheaper to use primer than paint.)

ToolSeeker 08-31-2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 1236579)
First issue is why you are priming. If there is already paint on the wall and you are repainting, there is normally no need to use any primer at all. So regular Kilz is out.

The next reason to prime is for color. I'm not too familiar with the Behr color chips, so I don't know if they make a color prime recommendation. With Sherwin Williams, for example, on every paint chip is a gray shade (or lack of) that they recommend under the paint, to bring out the correct color in the paint.

So ideally, there is probably some shade of gray, whether Behr recommends it or not, that would be best under this color.

Basically I agree with matthew, that if this is a repaint, adding a third coat of this paint without primer will probably achieve the actual color and also save you time and money. (I don't know about you, but I never clean roller pans or covers - I throw out the covers and use disposable pan liners. They don't mention this cost when they tell you in the store it's cheaper to use primer than paint.)

Sorry but I totally disagree with this, I have painted red over some light colored walls, and some bright colors that took 4 and 5 coats. I know there are some people on here that like BEHR but the worst red I ever tried to cover with was BEHR. For the cost of a gallon grey primer or to have primer tinted gray I personally would not paint red without it.

Matthewt1970 08-31-2013 07:09 PM

I have used some of the new true red based paints that damn near cover in one coat, He is using Behr however the color he is showing I would barely even put in the red category.

Jmayspaint 08-31-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthewt1970
I have used some of the new true red based paints that damn near cover in one coat, He is using Behr however the color he is showing I would barely even put in the red category.

Idk, I've seen some good reviews on the Premium plus as far as coverage goes. That paint is specced to go on %50 thicker than most paints. (6mil)

cdaniels 08-31-2013 08:49 PM

The grey primer would be cheap insurance although I have used some paints in that shade of red that covered well.Personally, I would prime.

Matthewt1970 08-31-2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmayspaint (Post 1236603)
Idk, I've seen some good reviews on the Premium plus as far as coverage goes. That paint is specced to go on %50 thicker than most paints. (6mil)

You mean the paint that actually stays on the wall and doesn't sag off?

jeffnc 09-01-2013 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1236592)
Sorry but I totally disagree with this, I have painted red over some light colored walls, and some bright colors that took 4 and 5 coats. I know there are some people on here that like BEHR but the worst red I ever tried to cover with was BEHR. For the cost of a gallon grey primer or to have primer tinted gray I personally would not paint red without it.

That's fine, it's a good way to go. But with respect to painting red, I've also painted 4-5 coats of red on a wall. I think it has to do with the specific paint, and also the specific hue of red. Some bright reds I call "clear" because the base has very little opaque ingredients in it (you can't use titanium dioxide with a deep, bright red because TD is too white.)

(If I go to Sherwin Williams and ask for SuperPaint, and they tell me the color is going to be mixed into Color Accents Ultra-Deep Base, I know I'm in trouble. Don't know if they still carry Color Accents or if they use something else now.)

Two things - first, the red shown here is not really a bright red. It might use Behr's plain white base, not sure. Second, it might have been an older version of Behr you used. They change all the time. See Jack Pauhl's review.
http://www.jackpauhl.com/behr-premiu...ltra-eggshell/

jeffnc 09-01-2013 09:49 AM

jmayspaint seems to understand his wet mil thickness better than most of us, but I can tell you Behr Premium Plus Ultra is spec'ed for coverage as high as 400 sf/gal but as low as 250! So the recommended wet film thickness is 4.0-6.4, and dry film thickness from 1.6 to as high as 2.6! That's awesome. That's 2 full coats of ProMar 200 in one coat. Thicker than Aura at 2.0.

(More evidence we should think in terms of paint film thickness, not number of coats.)

I guess it's easy to claim anything you want, but if it delivers that, no one else can match it (at least they're not claiming it, so that probably means they can't do it.)

Can't say I've applied it that thick, but if I get an opportunity to experiment, I'm going to. My standard paint is SuperPaint, at 1.3 mil thickness, but if I continue to hear good things about Premium Plus Ultra and have more good experiences with it, maybe it will become my standard paint (only problem being it doesn't come in flat as far as I can tell.)

chrisn 09-01-2013 09:57 AM

See Jack Pauhl's review.
http://www.jackpauhl.com/behr-premiu...ltra-eggshell/


Well, if you really believe everything you read on the internet, this might prove interesting. Me, I don't believe. This coming of my own experience with the product.

jeffnc 09-01-2013 10:02 AM

By extension, we shouldn't believe anything we read in this forum, then? If you're saying we should base our conclusions only on our own experience, then why are you here giving advice and why does this forum even exist?

I would say Pauhl's review is far more detailed, controlled, and scientific than any of the more or less random comments on this forum. I've never seen anything like review from you or me or anyone else here for that matter. People don't need to believe everything they read on the internet. But if they're not going to believe reviews that well written, then the internet is probably not the place for them to begin with.

MikeEG 09-01-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 1236741)
(only problem being it doesn't come in flat as far as I can tell.)

Behr makes a Premium Plus Ultra ceiling paint. I used it recently and while it's not the flattest paint I've ever seen, it's pretty flat. It's only tintable in lighter colors, though.


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