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Old 05-28-2013, 05:06 PM   #1
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Deck Stain Help


After reading the forums for a good couple of days, I settled on a game plan to re-stain my deck. I'm determined to do it properly this time, as I admittedly have done a poor job in the past (not waiting for 100% dry, big box stain etc).

What I initially decided on was removing all of the old solid stain and going with a semi trans oil based Sikkens. I went over to Benjamin Moore and picked up some Remove, and picked up some dark colored semi trans oil based Sikkens Cetol SRD.

I applied the Remove, and then power washed it off yesterday (not too high setting). It got rid of a lot of the old solid white stain. I grabbed an orbital sander with some 40/60 grit thinking it would take care of the rest. Umm no. Can't get the stuff thats on there off, even spending a tonne of time on a one foot section! So, this morning decided to re-apply BM Remove, and power wash again. Marginal at best, still a lot of old stain left on there.

The semi trans Sikkens stain I bought is Mahogany, fairly dark, but I'm assuming it won't cover the white stain from before?

I'm stupid I should have tried cleaning it up before spending the $150 on the semi trans Sikkens Cetol SRD. Oh well.

And one other question - guy at BM said he doesnt know how long oil based will be available. He said that if I do it in oil and it gets discontinued, I would have to re-strip the entire deck to go water based.

I don't really use the deck that much. I'm just looking to preserve the wood as long as possible. I don't mind revisiting annually or every two years as long as I don't have to strip the damn thing!

So two questions -

1) Am I doomed to solid stain?
2) Should I go sikkens oil or water?

Thanks for the help,
Big Mike
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Last edited by bigmike53; 05-28-2013 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:30 PM   #2
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Deck Stain Help


You definitely do not want to put any semi-transparent stain on until you get all the old color off. Strange that your 40 grit didnít get more off there than it did. I am going to guess that isnít PT pine. Itís hard to tell from the picks. If I were you I would probably look at removing one of the boards and see about flipping them over. They also should be spaced out to allow water to drain off.

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Old 05-28-2013, 08:03 PM   #3
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Deck Stain Help


Flipping the boards over never occurred to me. But it might actually save you time, and look better to boot.

I'm pretty sure the Sikkens "stain" I used last month (customer request) was Cetol SRD. And it basically had poly in it. In other words, it is film forming. Don't you want a non film forming stain? I like Cabot, there must be other good ones.

edit: Never mind - I used Cetol 1 which is film forming. SRD is advertised as non film forming. Sikkens seemed good quality to me.

Last edited by jeffnc; 05-28-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:23 PM   #4
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Deck Stain Help


The way a deck is built is as important to its life span as any coating you can apply. As Matthew said, the boards are too close. Can't tell from the pics, but is the deck close to the ground? Is it boxed in around the bottom or open? Some decks are built to fail, without enough ventilation to let it dry out pretty quickly after a rain, even the best stains will fail.
And yes, the white will show through any semi- trans stain. Maybe sand more. I have flipped decking boards with success, but it kinda depends on the nails/ screws used originally as to how feasible this is. And if there is a moisture problem, flipping the boards alone is only a temporary solution.
Sikkens SRD is a penetrating semi-trans stain. Sikkens makes great products, but to me the SRD doesn't seem to hold up any better than other top line brands.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:27 PM   #5
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Deck Stain Help


Thanks for the responses guys.

Unfortunately the boards are nailed not screwed about every foot, for 30 feet (the pics show only one side of my deck). I'm pretty sure they would be destroyed if I attempted to flip them.

Jmays, the deck is about 3 feet off the ground, it has lattice around the sides. Thanks for the information regarding the spacing of the boards, unfortunately I'm going to have to make do. As previously noted, sanding with 40/60 had very little effect on the remaining stain.

Thanks,

Big Mike

Last edited by bigmike53; 05-28-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:41 PM   #6
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Deck Stain Help


I don't think you are going to get the pigments from the solid stain out of the deck. At with 40/60 grit used aggressively, you are risking chewing up the thing. Switch to 80.

Flipping a board to see if that will work is worth a shot.

Otherwise, and I usually I do not recommend using solid stains on decks but you said you do not use yours much? Why not just invest in some nice, waterbased SW acrylic Woodscapes in mahagony or whatever color you want and be done with this?

Even if you can flip the boards they will have aged and a semi-transparent stain will not deliver what you seek I feel. If you didn't open the cans? The store will take it back.

The Ben Moore equivalent of Woodscapes solid stain is Arborcoat. I used Ben Moore most but that product was not out when I got called to do exterior fence and deck work. Acutally MAB solid stain was my go to product but SW bought MAB and Woodscapes is the same thing I hope. My mentees touched up a two tone lattice fence for me and said they liked Woodscapes. Damned kids and lattice work do not always get along so well so some gates had to be rebuilt. The solid stain went over old stained wood and the new repairs nicely. We took samples of the stained wood into the store and the color analyzer nailed the color perfectly.

Last edited by user1007; 05-28-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:22 PM   #7
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Deck Stain Help


That deck to me looks like some one polyed pine flooring then tryed to paint over it.
Glossy looking, no seams, Hmm.
If there's no exposted nails why not rent a floor sander?
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
If there's no exposted nails why not rent a floor sander?
You know Joe, for once you are on to a decent idea. We cannot see how level the thing is but an orbital, not a drum type, floor sander with some touch up with a hand sander around the edges could work for this.

The OP is just not going to get all that is on off and laying a semi-transparent over it all is just not going to turn out well. And he is going to carve a mess at 40-60 grit so needs to buy lots of 80 paper.

Flipping the boards and a floor sander could work. The friction and heat of a floor sander could just melt the pigment of the solid stain down into the grain though.

So Joe. I love the idea of yours this time and might try a floor sander to see what happens. Otherwise flip the boards and sand them. If flipped and able to be nailed level? Floor sander an orbital floor sander could work.

Or just live with the situation and apply a solid stain product.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:59 PM   #9
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Deck Stain Help


Thanks for all the responses guys. Solid stain it is.

Should I just go water based as I know I'll be revisiting it annually or hopefully every two years? And what should be required next time I have to revisit it - just a quick power wash, quick sand and then re-apply?

Appreciate all the useful info!

Big Mike
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:13 AM   #10
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Deck Stain Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike53 View Post
Thanks for all the responses guys. Solid stain it is.

Should I just go water based as I know I'll be revisiting it annually or hopefully every two years? And what should be required next time I have to revisit it - just a quick power wash, quick sand and then re-apply?

Appreciate all the useful info!

Big Mike
I would never, ever put latex stain on a horizontal walking surface. This was my girlfriends deck after 2 winters with Behr Latex Deck Stain.

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Old 05-29-2013, 09:31 AM   #11
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Deck Stain Help


I don't know if all acrylic stains are film forming but I've heard nothing but bad stories about the ones that are.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Matthewt1970 View Post
I would never, ever put latex stain on a horizontal walking surface. This was my girlfriends deck after 2 winters with Behr Latex Deck Stain.

I would never use Behr on anyting. And I would never first recommend a solid stain on deck. But sometimes, and especially if someone stained it with an inferior product you have to follow their terrible decision.

There is a survey floating around from people who manage forests and decks for tourists to explore them. 3 years is the average life expectancy of any deck product.

I did not like doing deck work but prepped and stained properly and told the client to expect me or someone back in 3-5 years, before I knew of the study.

An exterior stain product might work on vertical surfaces for 8-10 years but get over it people. Your horizontal deck surface, exposed every waking hour to sun and even when you are sleeping to whatever is happening outside?

If you get 3 years out of your stain product. More power too you. There is a possible other path though. Cover your exterior surfaces with exterior area rugs just like I hope you would do with nicely finished interior floors. They come in all styles, textures and colors now. Clean them with a hose and detergent or trash dumpster them if you must.

They are cheaper than I would have charged to finish a deck for you.



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Old 05-29-2013, 12:16 PM   #13
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Deck Stain Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmike53
Thanks for all the responses guys. Solid stain it is.

Should I just go water based as I know I'll be revisiting it annually or hopefully every two years? And what should be required next time I have to revisit it - just a quick power wash, quick sand and then re-apply?

Appreciate all the useful info!

Big Mike
For sure latex solid stains don't have a good track record on horizontal surfaces. And anything solid is the last thing I recommend for a deck. After seeing latex solids fail time after time, even on seemingly ideally prepped horizontal surfaces, I've completely gave up on them.

However in some situations, perhaps yours, a solid is the only option. The new oil modified solid deck stains seem to be a vast improvement over latex solids. My local BM dealer started carrying ZAR solid about 4years ago, I like it a lot so far. Two coats with proper prep has a 5 year warranty on horizontal surfaces. Although the board spacing issues might affect the warranty in your case.

This deck was done with semi-trans on the floor, and ZAR solid on the hand rails in August of 2010. So far the ZAR is doing great on the horizontals that it was applied to. We will see if it makes It 5 full years.
'Flood solid stain' is another oil modified I've had good luck with.

If I were you, I wouldn't give up on the sanding yet. Getting it stripped and applying a simple sealer/ preservative would probably be best. But if you have to go solid, check out the ZAR.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmayspaint View Post
For sure latex solid stains don't have a good track record on horizontal surfaces. And anything solid is the last thing I recommend for a deck. After seeing latex solids fail time after time, even on seemingly ideally prepped horizontal surfaces, I've completely gave up on them.

However in some situations, perhaps yours, a solid is the only option. The new oil modified solid deck stains seem to be a vast improvement over latex solids. My local BM dealer started carrying ZAR solid about 4years ago, I like it a lot so far. Two coats with proper prep has a 5 year warranty on horizontal surfaces. Although the board spacing issues might affect the warranty in your case.

This deck was done with semi-trans on the floor, and ZAR solid on the hand rails in August of 2010. So far the ZAR is doing great on the horizontals that it was applied to. We will see if it makes It 5 full years.
'Flood solid stain' is another oil modified I've had good luck with.

If I were you, I wouldn't give up on the sanding yet. Getting it stripped and applying a simple sealer/ preservative would probably be best. But if you have to go solid, check out the ZAR.
While I admit waterborne alkyds have come a long way I would still be scared to put them on a deck. Last weekend I was talked into putting another coat of oil on my girlfriends deck that is pictured above. It could have went another year but the thing is it is all oil now, The latex is long gone. The oil now just wears away, it doesn't peel. My entire prep job involved cleaning it with water.

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