Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Painting

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-29-2012, 06:42 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Share |
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


I've been reading some previous posts on solid stain. I'm don't quite understand the difference between a solid stain and a paint and when to use them.

I need to treat raw southern yellow pine on exterior window trim.

Which is the better choice of coating, solid stain or paint?

If using solid stain, is a primer needed?

Would a primer prevent the soild stain from penetrating into the wood?

Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 06:49 AM   #2
Member
 
Gymschu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Ohio (heart of Appalachia)
Posts: 2,769
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Paint lays on the surface, stain penetrates into the wood. For stain, you don't want to use a primer as it will impede the ability of the stain to penetrate. Either option you are suggesting is acceptable. Staining exterior pine is fine.........priming and painting is fine.......it's all a matter of the look you prefer. Stain is gonna give you a FLAT look, paint will give off a sheen from Satin to high gloss.

Gymschu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 07:11 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 430
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
I've been reading some previous posts on solid stain. I'm don't quite understand the difference between a solid stain and a paint and when to use them.

I need to treat raw southern yellow pine on exterior window trim.

Which is the better choice of coating, solid stain or paint?

If using solid stain, is a primer needed?

Would a primer prevent the soild stain from penetrating into the wood?
Ernie...

As far as solid stains go, you usually have a choice of SC (Solid Cover) Latex or SC Oil. Same with house paint, you usually have the choice of oil based paints and latex paints. If you're comparing Latex SC Stain to Latex House Paint, the differences are subtle. They are made of essentially the same components, but only in different ratios. A Solid Stain is going to be longer in vehicle (than house paint) to allow for better penetration, and so that it'll conform to the wood's texture better. SC Latex Stains do not require a primer. Which one is better? If you're looking at 1 or 2 coats of SC Latex Stain versus 1 coat primer followed by 1 or 2 coats of Latex House Paint - The house paint system absolutely has the advantages in terms of lifespan and functional protection to the substrate.

The same holds true for an Oil based SC Stain versus the Latex House Paint system described above. Again, the Oil based SC Stain requires no primer, but now you have to contend with the inherent disadvantages of an oil product against that of a latex system. Oils/alkyds, as they relate to latex paint systems, are more prone to fading, chalking, peeling and mildew growth.

As far as an oil based house paint and primer system...probably not the best thing to consider, especially on Southern Yellow Pine - They also have all the disadvantages of an oil based SC Stain (fading, peeling, etc.), but even more so due to the heavier mil thickness of the coating.

A latex house paint plan, consisting of 1 prime coat and at least 1 finish coat, is gonna be your longest lasting (functionally and aesthetically) system available. If the trim boards haven't been installed yet, you can possibly extend the paint's lifespan even further by back priming the yellow pine boards. I hope this info helps, good luck.
ric knows paint is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ric knows paint For This Useful Post:
Gymschu (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 07:21 AM   #4
Member
 
Gymschu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Ohio (heart of Appalachia)
Posts: 2,769
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Thanks Ric, you explain it so much better........
Gymschu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 07:34 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 430
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymschu View Post
Thanks Ric, you explain it so much better........
Well, thank you Gymshu...you make a good point about paint being more of a surface coating and stain, by penetration, becomes more of an integral part of the entire system...and, of course as always, each system has their own distinct advantages and disadvantages.
ric knows paint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 08:24 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Thanks from the excellent explanations you guys have provided.

I'm still trying to decide on what to use on the window trim. Stain or paint. The rest of the house's logs are stained with Sashco Transformation. Sashco has no colored stain so I'm looking to Sherwin-Williams for color.

So, solid stain will penetrate the wood where paint is surface only?

Is a semi-transparent stain any better at penetrating the wood? To me it appears to be the same as solid but just allows the wood grain to be visible and not as durable.
Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 08:35 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 430
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
Thanks from the excellent explanations you guys have provided.

I'm still trying to decide on what to use on the window trim. Stain or paint. The rest of the house's logs are stained with Sashco Transformation. Sashco has no colored stain so I'm looking to Sherwin-Williams for color.

So, solid stain will penetrate the wood where paint is surface only?

Is a semi-transparent stain any better at penetrating the wood? To me it appears to be the same as solid but just allows the wood grain to be visible and not as durable.
Solid stains will penetrate the wood...sort of...and, yes, paint is considered a surface coating. If you're considering a latex solid cover stain, the stain can only penetrate so far because of it's fast drying time. Oils will typically penetrate deeper but there's always those pesky issues of fading, chalking, etc...

Semi-Transparents are the same way. Oils penetrate deeper than latexes. Be careful with Semi-transparents though, these products actually provide the least amount of protection for the shortest period of time. That's due to their inability to block the sun's uv rays from getting to the wood.

Once again, paint will look the least rustic, but will provide the longest lasting protection of all systems we've discussed.
ric knows paint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #8
Member
 
Matthewt1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,767
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by ric knows paint View Post
Oils will typically penetrate deeper but there's always those pesky issues of fading, chalking, etc...
That's exactly what you want your oil stain to do over time so when it is time to recoat there is very little left of the original product that the new coats penetrate. Latex stain on the other hand will basicly be paint after 3 coats or so since you no longer are pentrating the wood but merely recoating the old stain.
__________________
Latex Primer: Good for Drywall, that's about it.
Behr Paint: The plastic buckets are good, that's about it.
Matthewt1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Matthewt1970 For This Useful Post:
Nailbags (02-29-2012)
Old 02-29-2012, 12:46 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 430
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthewt1970 View Post
That's exactly what you want your oil stain to do over time so when it is time to recoat there is very little left of the original product that the new coats penetrate. Latex stain on the other hand will basicly be paint after 3 coats or so since you no longer are pentrating the wood but merely recoating the old stain.
Seriously? ...You're saying that chalking, the release of formerly bound pigments due to the ultimate and systematic breakdown of a paint film, is a good thing because it allows for better penetration the next time you decide to apply this same short-lived, inferior coating? Let me ask you a question...there is about 3-4 pounds of pigment (or more) in each gallon of SC Oil stain, what happens to those pigments when released? Do they just blow away in the wind? Or do they remain on the surface until you come along with your shop vac, as a means of surface prep, before applying another coat of this dissolvable product? Or, as in Earnie's case, do these pigments wash down over, and onto his siding, creating a stain that can be a little difficult to remove?

By the way, oil sc stains rarely chalk to that point where there is "very little left of the original product that the new coats penetrate"...The amount of chalking is more of an aesthetic nuisance, but a nuisance that will still require the surface prep of removal before re-coating, when it's time. Equally important to the aesthetic consequence of chalking is the fading issue - which means this coating, with any degree of sunlight exposure, will soon look washed out and blanched. If this coating doesn't have the necessary amount of sunlight to trigger chalking and fading, then how 'bout dat mildew issue? ...or does it leave with the rest of the film when it all just goes away?

These are the disadvantages of oil based products that have both aesthetic and structural consequences - and these issues aren't as prevalent with latex coatings. I present these advantages and disadvantages - to Earnie, in response to his question, so that he can make a better informed decision on how to proceed with painting his window trim.

Also, Latex stain will not be basically paint after 3 coats because it's basically paint before it's even applied. Read the part about the subtle differences between a latex stain and latex house paint...

Last edited by ric knows paint; 03-01-2012 at 03:34 AM.
ric knows paint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 11:12 AM   #10
Member
 
Matthewt1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,767
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Quote:
Originally Posted by ric knows paint View Post
Seriously? ...You're saying that chalking, the release of formerly bound pigments due to the ultimate and systematic breakdown of a paint film, is a good thing because it allows for better penetration the next time you decide to apply this same short-lived, inferior coating? Let me ask you a question...there is about 3-4 pounds of pigment (or more) in each gallon of SC Oil stain, what happens to those pigments when released? Do they just blow away in the wind? Or do they remain on the surface until you come along with your shop vac, as a means of surface prep, before applying another coat of this dissolvable product? Or, as in Earnie's case, do these pigments wash down over, and onto his siding, creating a stain that can be a little difficult to remove?

By the way, oil sc stains rarely chalk to that point where there is "very little left of the original product that the new coats penetrate"...The amount of chalking is more of an aesthetic nuisance, but a nuisance that will still require the surface prep of removal before re-coating, when it's time. Equally important to the aesthetic consequence of chalking is the fading issue - which means this coating, with any degree of sunlight exposure, will soon look washed out and blanched. If this coating doesn't have the necessary amount of sunlight to trigger chalking and fading, then how 'bout dat mildew issue? ...or does it leave with the rest of the film when it all just goes away?

These are the disadvantages of oil based products that have both aesthetic and structural consequences - and these issues aren't as prevalent with latex coatings. I present these advantages and disadvantages - to Earnie, in response to his question, so that he can make a better informed decision on how to proceed with painting his window trim.

Also, Latex stain will not be basically paint after 3 coats because it's basically paint before it's even applied. Read the part about the subtle differences between a latex stain and latex house paint...

Oil based stain is not a paint film. They are completely different products. And yes, oil based stains break down over time. It does so subtlety so you never see it on the siding or your shoes or the ground. Thatís why you can keep recoating with oil stain every few years and never have a heavy build up like you will with latex. Take it for whatever you think it is worth but we have gone back to homes that get re-stained every 5 years or so and there is no buildup or peeling. The stuff soaks right back into the wood. Some of the homes are on their 4th or 5th re-stain. It appears I read the same thing on the net you did, but I have found latex stains and paint to be just as susceptible to mildew growth as oils.
__________________
Latex Primer: Good for Drywall, that's about it.
Behr Paint: The plastic buckets are good, that's about it.
Matthewt1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 13
Default

Confused about Solid Stain vs Paint


Let's be clear. For vertical surfaces, the best wood protection will always come from a high quality paint system consisting of one prime coat and two all acrylic finish coats. The ONLY reason to use a stain is if you want to see more of the wood texture (be it solid or transparent stain) at the cost of film longevity. A solid latex stain will not penetrate any better than a paint would - both are opaque but the stain has less resin than the paint and therefore forms a thinner film. If you are using a light color over a tannin wood (cedar or redwood), sometimes a primer is indeed necessary.

Oils/alkyds, while once the only solution for exterior wood, no longer serve a useful purpose as an opaque finish and while they are still used quite extensively for decks as a ST or transparent finish, their propensity to oxidize, grow mildew and ultimately breakdown make them a poor choice when longevity is the goal for vertical surfaces.

Paintguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Solid Color Deck Stain over Prev Painted Deck? s_nguyen Painting 3 05-01-2011 11:21 AM
Cleaning brush StevenH Painting 19 02-05-2011 11:13 PM
paint over stain countrygirl Painting 1 02-01-2010 03:10 AM
Second coat of solid stain on house??? millermm Painting 3 09-22-2009 07:57 PM
Painting a room for new baby. Lots of questions. SuperAkuma Painting 15 01-01-2009 10:18 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.